Every day is a big day – but some days are bigger than others. For the final recording in the Solo Studio, Peter welcomes back a familiar guest: his soul sister of 22 years, Julie Nirvelli. Before Peter packs up, clears out, and heads to South America for sabbatical, the two sit down for a candid Q&A about friendship, independence, blind spots, and what happens when people who love each other disagree. Prompted by a beautifully messy listener question, Peter and Julie explore sensitive subjects, intellectualizing versus feeling, and the places where autonomy can both serve us and get in our way. They also reflect on how their views of Solo living have evolved – and look ahead to Peter’s next chapter: examining the “Solo economy” and the institutions still built around couples, despite a world increasingly filled with unmarried people and one-person households. It’s a conversation about rough seas, remarkable friendships, and making space for a new life without abruptly abandoning the old one.
—
Listen to Episode #271 here
Q and A with Peter’s Soul Sister
Wrapping Up the Solo Studio for South America
Welcome back. Another AMA, ask me anything or should it be AUA, ask us anything episode with a familiar guest. My soul sister of 22 years, Julie Nirvelli.
—
Welcome back, Julie.
It’s great to be back. It feels like it’s been a long time since.
I think so, too. I have a saying. I have a lot of sayings, but one of them is every day is a big day but some days are bigger than others. That’s been a recent addendum. Why is it a bigger than average big day?
Where shall I begin? This is the last episode to be recorded in the Solo studio.
Correct. Yes, I am packing up my life and shuddering in the studio.
That’s the other part of the bigger than usual day, is the house cooling party.
Navigating Long-Term Friendship Without Judgment
That’s right. The idea is that friends are coming over to say goodbye, spend some quality time and then people could take whatever they want free of charge. Most of it could go now. Some of it might have to wait till my actual move day or a day before, depending on what the thing is. Whatever doesn’t get claimed will go to donations. It will get packed up and get donated. I don’t want to deal with Facebook Marketplace.
That’s not your style.
I want these things to find a better home.
Purging.
I’m working on a Solo Thoughts episode about this process. We talk about it or it may just be a subsequent post.
Now everybody’s wondering where you’re going.
I’ve talked a long time about my forthcoming sabbatical, and my readers know I’m excited about it. I am packing up my life and I will be headed to South America as my home base. A place for me to think, read, write, walk, and contemplate like, is there a big thing in me? Scholarly or even otherwise, perhaps. Sabbaticals are designed for a variety of things. It might be to execute a big project that you don’t have time for because of your admin and your teaching.
Using Spiritual Tools for Practical Coping
It might be to pivot your work to learn a new topic. For me, it will be to tie up a lot of loose ends, existing projects but a lot of it is going to be contemplating. I’ve had these distinct phases in my life. The beginning was traditional behavioral economics, studying emotions and moral judgment, then the humor work, then the Solo project and then, a big question mark after that. The show is not ending. It won’t end abruptly, but as anybody whose regulars recognize I’ve lost a little bit of steam. I still have some episodes that I’m working on, but it will be a little more improvisation. A little more impromptu. It will be a little bit more at the whims of my interests.
When I come and visit you in South America.
Certainly, 100%. I pitched this as an Ask Us Anything episode. Although, that’s a bit of an exaggeration because we only have one reader question.
They asked what they wanted.
You know it, but I posted something. I’d say the Solo community hasn’t been terribly active. It gets more active when I get active because people get pinged and it reminds them that it exists. We want to thank Romero who asks the following question, roughly. “As platonic friends and soul sister or soul brother types, do you have opinions where the other person would disagree? Do you avoid talking about those subjects?”
“You probably share a lot of similar perspectives, but maybe each of you has left to center views, blind spots, assumptions or mysteries the others don’t know about. Have you ever touched a sensitive subject and had to find your way back to safety in the relationship?” You wrote, “I love this, Romero. One subject came to mind right away. Now, Peter is sweating.” This is a beautifully messy question and I’m so curious what you think.
I would start by saying, part of the reason we’ve been friends for so long is we’re able to share anything and not have judgment with each other. We’re open to whatever is going on. Since we both accept each other as who we are, we don’t bump into that many subjects that we don’t agree on.
Balancing A-Life Achievement with B-Life Savoring
I have that exact same thought. Our lack of conflict has more to do with our ability, first of all, our similarity. You just happen to be someone who we see eye to eye on a lot of things to begin with. The next level is, you are not a judgmental person. I don’t feel like you judge me. As a result, I will tell you everything. I have no secrets from you. I only have a small group of people. I have a friend who talks about his public life, his private life and his secret life.
I am also that person who says that now. You have access to my secret life. My show’s audience have access to my public life, some of my private life and all my friends have access to my private life. Only a few have access to my secret life. People are like, “What is?” You’re not going to find out because you’re not part of it, so I agree. I’m happy to hear you think the same way.
We truly just want each other to be happy. If one of us cancels or says, “We don’t want to do something,” we’re fine with it. I want you to be happy and do what makes you happy.
The same. Although, I am always disappointed when you don’t come to my game nights but I understand why.
You stopped inviting me.
I did.
Why sad myself with a no?
We were able to communicate clearly that I’m not that interested in game night and you didn’t take it personally.
I also think in this very politically charged world, I’m not a super political person and you’re even less so. That also makes it easier because we don’t talk politics very much. It’s not that politics aren’t important, etc. It’s just that I tend to gravitate towards topics, especially if I’m going to get worked up about something, about things I can control versus things I can’t. I don’t feel like I can control, aside from voting. I don’t feel like I can control politics. I also think with Solo in particular, I’ve always wanted it to be political. I don’t want to cut off half the singles in the world with a political judgment. What do you think we disagree most on?
Grounding the Mind Through Somatic Practices
I don’t think we disagree on anything. The topic that came to mind from Romero’s question was spirituality.
Your hippier dipper than I am.
Way more.
Though, I have been.
You’ve been moving in the direction.
It’s funny. We have a mutual fund friend Kim Tara Beal. She’s been on the show. People love her voice. Is Kim hippier dipper than you or she’s about the same?
I don’t know.
Kim has an astrological chart for me. She made me give her my birthplace, time, date, everything and she did like a full chart. Occasionally, she’s like, “This is happening because of this.” I’m like, “I had no idea.”
She’s more into astrology than I am. She and I haven’t connected in years, and I’ve evolved quite a bit in the last few years. I don’t know where we were.
A lot of my thoughts about this are some of it’s been fueled by psychedelic experiences. It is like it’s a low-cost thing. I’m like, “Why not? Try it.” It can’t hurt to turn my attention to this world.
As a scientist, you could look at it as a tool, even if you don’t fully believe that there’s a higher power. A lot of the practices still can be used as a tool to help people cope or be happy or view things in a different way.
Agreed. Even turning your attention to the wonder and possibility of the world. Turning your attention to the positive, and to the present. I was a child of alcoholism. We went to Al team and one of the sayings often was, “Let go and let God.” Whether you believe in God or a higher power or energy or some other thing. It is a nice reminder, as someone who has a hard time loosening his grip, that letting go might be the dominant strategy rather than gripping more tightly or trying harder.
That idea that you don’t have to shoulder everything. It creates a mental shift. As you said, you don’t have to believe in a higher power, but you can also take that lesson and say, “I don’t have to bear everything.”
Licensing Connection-Driven Entrepreneurial Communities
I remember a story and grad school. My advisor Barb Millers, who is a wonderful person and a wonderful mentor. We were out at dinner with someone we were going to be collaborating with. A normal person and not a scientist. Astrology came up and I poo-pooed it at the dinner because I was like a full on agro behavioral scientist kind of thing. It made an awkward interaction and when we got into the parking lot, Barb was like, “What are you doing?” I’m like, “Come on, Barb. You don’t believe this stuff.” She’s like, “That doesn’t matter.” I’ve come a long way in those almost 30 years to like, “I’ll engage. I opened it. Let’s hear. Let’s talk. Let’s see what you got.”
I feel like you had an experience. You were in Europe somewhere and there was a book sitting on a table. You told me this story of something you were going through or thinking about. You went to a coffee shop and you randomly opened this book and it was talking about exactly what you were contemplating.
I do vaguely remember this.
In my mind, I was like, “That is not an accident. That is there for a reason.” You historically would say that was statistically coincidental.
This can happen. It happens more often than you believe statistically can, or you could be like, something, someone or some force is like, “No, Peter. Pay attention to this.” The more important thing is what do you do with that book once you have it. Don’t ignore it just because it might be a true statistical anomaly. Go for it. Lean in to that moment.
That’s the cool thing. It doesn’t matter the reason. because you got something powerful out of it.
That’s right.
Romero, that’s not that exciting.
Sorry, brother. It’s so boring. It’s a lovely thing about our relationship. I tend to have peaceful relationships and you tend to have peaceful relationships. I want to respect people’s opinions. It’s not zero sum. We can both be right in our own ways and it works. Do you think we disagree on anything with regard to the Solo project?
No.
Not so much.
It’s different perspectives.
The Solo project also was built to be a big tent and to be very flexible because it’s not, being single is good and marrying his bad. That’s certainly not the case. It’s, single is good and marriage is good. It’s a match. There is an infinite way of doing singlehood well remarkably as I like to say. No way in a new way can be best friends and not feel like someone’s doing it wrong.
You have a married audience who get valuable insights about being a little more independent.
Also, to be better allies to their single folks. Thank you to our allies. Thank you, Romero.
Thank you.
We’re not just going to do one question to wrap. I have some questions. This one’s going to be self-serving.
For you or for me?
For me.
Okay.
What is a blind spot? You think I have a friend, a Solo, or a man moving through the world? It doesn’t have to be bad exactly but you know what I mean. Rough patch or something I could work on. This is a very good time for me. to recognize this stuff because I’m about to shift into another culture and a little new lifestyle and so on.
The first thing that comes to mind is something that’s already in your awareness, which is chilling out a bit more.
Define chilling out, Julie.
Advocating for Singles in the Modern Economy
There’s nothing wrong with the way you’ve been doing it. You’ve been producing and doing impressive work. Being published, writing books and traveling. You’re just in this space of wanting to be more contemplative and slower down. I don’t think it will be easy because you’re so conditioned to produce.
I have Solo Thoughts episode 19, which you have not read yet, called A-Life vs. B-Life, where I talk about turning. It’s not a switch. My head would explode. Also, I don’t want to. The idea essentially is A- life is a life of purpose, meaning an achievement where you have goals. You’re focused on a means to an end. B-life is a more engaged, beautiful life. A more present life where the means are the means. I talked about it as a dial. I’m trying to turn the dial. I would say when I was writing the Solo book, the dial was almost 100% A-life.
You were so focused on that.
I don’t think I could do it again. It would have to be an extraordinary circumstance to need to do that. The idea is, turning the dial towards a little bit more of a B-life where not everything I do is in service of achievement and meaning like Solo scholarship, teaching and so on. A sabbatical is a good time to do that because it affords more flexibility. It’s hard to undo decades worth of A-life. Moreover, it’s good that I’m not trying to switch it off. I still have things I want to be doing.
We can talk about some of those, but that’s right. I’m wound a little tight and I overthink a lot of things. I can get wrapped up in my projects, sometimes get a little isolated and sometimes miss some beautiful moments as a result of that. I encourage people, if they miss that episode. It’s a short Solo Thoughts episode. It’s a nice reminder about practicing one or the other, depending on what it is you want to do and knowing that you’re probably, at some point, if you’re able to retire.
How do you make that transition?
In my typical A-life, I pitched it as an essay. It’s part of the reason why so many people struggle in retirement. They’re not well practiced in B-life. Retirement is a great time to live a little bit more B-life to live more beautifully.
It would take practice. It’s a reprogramming. Isn’t there a book about that? It’s the Second Summit or something.
That’s the David Brooks book, The Second Mountain. It’s interesting that your second mountain could be an achievement mountain or a meaning mountain or a beauty mountain.
You define what it is.
You can imagine like you were a high powered lawyer and then you decide to have children. You pull back on that. Your second mountain might be kids, or your first mountain might be kids and then your second mountain might be more productive. I have another question for you, though, because it’s perfect. Maybe you have something you want to add before we go.
No.
I’m going to add one of my own blind spots. It’s not a blind spot, but I know it is. I spend a lot of time living above my shoulders thinking, overthinking, contemplating, planning, journaling, and reflecting and I’ve been working on living a little more below my shoulders.
How do you do that?
One is breathing. I’m starting to get into breathing as a way to be more embodied and to get out of my head.
Have you been to an actual breath work workshop?
I have not. I do have a potential episode on breathing, but I have not done anything beyond. I read The Wim Hof book and learned a little bit about basic box breathing.
It might be interesting to attend a breath work. I haven’t done it yet, but from what I understand it’s not relaxing. It gets work, but so many people have said you literally get your mind into a psychedelic state through the breath work that they walk you through. Anyway, I’ve been intrigued by it. It also sounds like a lot of work, which could be beautiful. I just haven’t been in this space to try it yet, but if you’re going to do an episode about breaths.
We’ll certainly cover that topic. What I understand is there’s two versions of breath work. One of them is parasympathetic and one sympathetic. You’d think I would know, but I don’t know.
I bet you’ll know.
One of them is about fighting or flight. It’s about getting yourself revved up. The other ones are about rest and digestion. It’s about getting yourself calm. A lot of the Wim Hof, which is famous for breathing, is more like getting yourself going. The psychedelic stuff is a lot like get yourself going. I have been trying to practice more on how I can use it slowly and so on. That’s one way that I’ve been working on this a bit just to drop myself below my shoulders in terms of my attention.
How about presence, being present?
I appreciate you bringing this up. I talked about it once before. I am trying to be more meditative. I’ve been doing my focused coffee ritual. Have we talked about this?
Yes.
I still enjoy my cafes in the morning, my americanos. It’s delicious and crazy expensive with the tip. We’re talking like $5.50. This is not an inexpensive ritual on a daily basis. It adds up. If I’m not careful, I crack open my laptop and I get to work answering email, working on writing, that and that. Whatever it is. The next thing I know, my delicious Americano is gone and I don’t even remember drinking it.
Sharon Salzberg, bless her. She’s a guru of sorts. She’s talked a lot about loving and kind meditation, which I’ve started practicing again. It talks about this. She uses tea as an example. I smell it and I look at the colors and the crema. I feel the warmth. I sip it and taste it and all I do is drink my coffee. The laptop can wait. The notes can wait. The phone can wait. That’s been one.
That’s amazing. Did we ever talk about my experience in France?
No. Go on. We talked about some of those, but that’s part of your secret life.
This is a life-changing experience for me. I was in Aix-en-Provence. I was wandering around town, which I had done many times before. I came into a plaza that I had been in many times before, but this time there was a man playing guitar singing in French standing under a tree. The temperature was perfect. It was around 6:00 at night. I sat on this block to listen to him play music.
B-life on a beautiful moment.
It was so amazing. The funny side effect, I have transformed this lesson that I share it now with my entrepreneurs that I work with. Because of what I experienced, I must have been radiating something because people were smiling at me. Two men came up and asked me out on dates just sitting there. I just felt like I was radiating something. What I talked about with my entrepreneurs is, how do you fall in love with your business so much that you just radiate and magnetize to what you need for your business?
That’s great. I’ve had a couple beautiful moments. It’s like one of those things that you have to allow yourself to have or you have to seek them out a little bit. When I called the honeysuckle moment, I was traveling and I came across this honeysuckle bush. I like that scent. It was my last night in this location. I couldn’t exactly remember where it was, and I was like, “I’m going to go find it.” I found it and it was a lot like that. It was like the sun was going down. It was the golden hour. I found it and I stood there. I just breathed in this thing and I started crying.
It was just one of those things. The other one was when I was at the gym. There’s a woman at the gym. Her name is Bailey. She’s lovely. She and her partner go to the gym. She’s a total badass in the gym. She’s attractive and fit, but she’s also friendly. In a world where people are closed off and, on their phones, Bailey always takes a few minutes. to say hello and to chat. Every time I see her, it brightens my day. I saw her and she came over to say hi.
I realize I may never see Bailey again because I’m going away. When I come back, will I come back to this gym? I don’t know. Probably not. I said to her, “Bailey, I’m moving away and I want to say thank you for being so friendly to me over the years.” She goes, “I always like seeing you.” For her, it was no big deal. She’s like, “Where are you going?” I told her and she goes, “That sounds so exciting. Can I give you a hug?” She gave me a hug and I gave her a hug then I left. I was literally leaving that day.
I remember walking down the escalator and thinking, “That was so lovely,” and it would have been easy to skip it. I’m glad I said something and I’m glad she responded the way she did. The world can be a very beautiful and loving place in contrast to the politics that are happening out there in the world, where everything feels tribal and zero sum. That if we are on the lookout for moments, we can find them.
A lot of it is mindset.
You’re good at this because you radiate a lot of openness and warmth. I think people are drawn to that. When I’m always hustling between getting to this place to that place, it’s easy to miss those connections to miss those moments of beauty.
That makes sense. Also, how much people are on their phones. I went to a concert and I put my phone in the car on purpose. You missed the picture moments and things like that, but to be present is so magical.
I agree with that. I had a friend say to me, “You’re one of my harder friends to get a hold of.” I was like, “I know that’s supposed to be like a friendly critique, but I take it as a compliment.”
I always have my phone on do not disturb.
Going back to Second Mountains. You have a lot happening.
I do.
What is going on? You already alluded to something. You’re working with entrepreneurs. I know that.
I have a couple big projects on the horizon. I have a community of entrepreneurs, and we do things differently than anyone. I’ve never seen the format that we have and part of the magic is that. I’m very selective of the people that I bring into the container. I’m making sure that everyone feels safe and that everyone feels like they’re the most important person in the room. We encourage each other, and brainstorm. It changes a lot of lives. It’s great work. I love it.
This is in Denver.
Yes. I have in-person groups and I started thinking about doing an online group for people that aren’t geographically here. I run an online group in a different industry. It’s industry specific and I love that group, too. I thought, “This is just like that. It’s so easy to do.” I felt some resistance to getting that ball rolling and I sat with myself wondering, “I love this work. What’s going on?” I realized that I want to inspire thousands of entrepreneurs. Millions. Not just ten more in an online group.
What came to me is I want to start licensing what I do and training people to do what I do. Those new people who would lead would be in my new online group, but that group would be for training them to do what I do. The ripple effect of that feels amazing. Eventually, conventions and travel like group travel and lots of fun things come out of that.
That’s great. You’re a natural at throwing parties and seeing anything that requires bringing a group of people together. Whether it be personal or professional. I see that as one of your superpowers.
Thank you. I don’t know if it’s as I’m getting older or what, but I’m becoming even more picky about who is in my orbit. I’m quick to recognize that energy doesn’t feel right to me then I close the door. I don’t think that’s a bad thing. It’s like hot tea, cold tea, or warm tea. It’s the same thing. I want people that we feel magnetized to each other to be in community with.
If you’re going to run a group, any group, a certain amount of curation is going to benefit the group.
It’s huge.
I know you started doing this in your romantic life in terms of finding people who vibrate at the right level for you. This is the same.
Exactly. It’s interesting that you bring that up because it has all happened around the same period of time.
That’s great. Can I ask about physical space?
Yes. Again, I hold a special energetic container for these gatherings. This is what I love about being in a community. One of my members had the idea that you should have your own space so you can have the physical container too. When he first said it, I said, “That’s an interesting idea.” I wasn’t in the headspace for it.
He brought it up again a few months later and it hit me like, “Yes. Having my own space where I can hold my own events and then people in my community or connected with my community could also have events. It would be a versatile space. We can do yoga, solo salons and all kinds of amazing fun things.” Again, not advertised to the public as people can come and have their own event. Again, it’s curating the type of people who are in that space.
You should post about when you’re ready to expand on the Solo Community. You go by Spark Coollective.
Spark is my nickname and the tagline is, “We do cool **** with cool people.” Collective has two Os for cool.
Is that right? I didn’t even notice that. That’s funny. I love the idea of space. A subset of people are eager to get off their phones and to meet real people in person.
That means many entrepreneurs are in isolation. We need more third spaces and places for people to gather.
That’s right. That’s very exciting. Here’s my last question for you, though. It’s an extension of this. Whether it be your solo living or second mountain or this entrepreneurial project. What has been the biggest change? What’s been the biggest challenge?
I was taking a class on Intuition Mindset. These women I’ve been together for a year, I joined and it can continue for another year. The facilitator, Jessica Willis, said, “Remember last year when we declared ourselves high-value women?” I don’t even remember what she said after that. My ears perked up and I was like, “High value woman? That’s interesting.”
She mentioned it again on another call, a high-value woman. Hearing those words shifted something in me, and I was working on a proposal. I was struggling and I thought, “What would a high value woman do in this case?” I did something that I wouldn’t have done prior. I was very aggressive with my pricing on this proposal. I started crying and called Jess. I was like, “You saying a high value woman created a shift in me.”
I got this proposal and that felt like a huge win. I said to Jess, “This is such a powerful concept.” I started holding myself physically in a different way. I walk with my head higher. I walk more slowly. I am now embodying this high value woman persona. It feels so powerful and impactful to the point that I’m also starting a movement called High Value Woman.
Is that why you’re going to take all my show gear from the Solo studio? Are you going to start a show?
Yes.
I knew it. Julie had said to me, “While you’re away, can I hold on to your show gear?” I’m like, “Of course,” but I was waiting to ask.
I’m excited about that and I also want it to be an offering within my physical space where other members of the community can record.
That’s exciting. Once you have that space going, you can use it for spark and for this. You could have two or three entrepreneurial ventures happening where you’re using that space.
Can I share the name of the space because I’m excited about it?
Of course.
We were talking about an idea and Spark Space didn’t quite feel right to me and the vibe is romantic gothic. Big floral ,dark, lots of velvet, and lots of textures. We’ve been talking about France and I just have this affinity with France and it hit me. I was in that liminal state when you’re falling asleep and you’re not quite asleep and these ideas hit you. The name came to me which is On Chante, which in French has a double meaning. One is enchanted and the space will feel very much like you’re transported into a different world. The other meaning is nice to meet you or it’s a pleasure. When you meet someone you say, “On Chante.” It’s such a perfect word for space.
I like it.
I’m going to get it tattooed on my arm.
That’s great. How exciting. Look at you dialing in the A-life a little bit. A-life or B-lie, there is no judgment there. It’s not one that is better than the other. It’s just, are you in line with what you need at this time in your life?
I also feel the wisdom that I’m bringing to this time in my life is, this is not a sprint. This is magnetizing the right people around me to make all of this happen. I’m not going to be the generator who is doing all this work. I will be bringing people into the sphere to help contribute.
That’s wise. The feeling that I’ve had from you as we’ve talked about it, there’s excitement but a slow presence to it. Where you’ve regularly said, “If this is not right, it will be okay. I’ll take care of it later.” I had this experience about fast feet and a slow mind. I had a very tight connection. I was hustling, not running. That just because my feet were moving fast, didn’t mean that my mind needed to be moving fast. I thought that was powerful but then that the next level is like, “No more tight connections, Peter.” I can have slow feet and a slow mind. Enjoy the process of going from one plane to the next plane and what might happen along the way.
In that presence.
I feel like you have both slow feet and a slow mind when it comes to this. You didn’t answer the other half of the question, the challenge.
As entrepreneurs, we have these big ideas and then there’s always a little bit of doubt that creeps in and I can’t say it’s a challenge yet because I haven’t fully started. I’ve dipped my toe a little bit but potentially raising money to do this may be the challenge. I did send out an initial outreach to quite a few potential investors who I know through the community and I received a very positive response like, “I’m interested in learning more. This sounds cool.”
I have one investor committed, which feels amazing. I’ve known him for many years. He believes in what I’m doing and wants to support it. The energy behind the money feels good. There’s always those little doubts like, “Can I pull this off?” It will be about a million-dollar project with the building and the build-out, furnishings and everything.
I don’t know much about that world. All I know is that investors are looking at the quality of the idea and the quality of the founder. Both of those are strong in this case.
Nothing like this exists. I’m calling it a gathering parlor for entrepreneurs.
There’s like social clubs and there’s co-work spaces but there’s not something like this.
Co-working spaces are designed for people to be productive and then they sometimes layer community building activities on top of that. Mine’s completely the opposite. The community is the foundation and then I will offer co-working two days a week and other opportunities for people to be in the community together. The community is the pillar.
One of the themes in the Solo Project has always been about connection. It’s sort of ironic. I’ve just always pushed connection, in part because it’s one of the things that predicts well-being better than anything else. It’s the thing that people get wrong when they advocate for marriage. They make the case that marriage predicts wellbeing but it’s not marriage per se. It’s a connection generally. It could be a marriage, a friendship, family, or community. Ideally, it’s a mix of all the above. With AI booming and also liberating people perhaps from their day jobs in order to be entrepreneurs, you could now be a solopreneur.
Very quickly have lots of agents working for you. You can ask AI for advice. It will give you good advice for running your business and so on. However, it’s going to be imperfect. They’re just making friends, hearing from other people, gathering their experience and having fun, laughing and commiserating. All of those things are going to become even more important. I think you’re on to something. You’re well suited to do it.
Thank you. I’m excited.
Good luck.
Thank you.
Buena Suerte.
Thank you. I have a question for you.
I’m done with my questions for you. You’re off the hook.
I’m curious about the Solo economy project that you’re working on.
I have talked a little bit about it on the show. I did a Solo Thoughts episode and then I’ve done a few. I’ve been writing about it. For example, I did an episode about human resources and employees and how singles are often asked to pick up the slack for their married coworkers, especially those who might have families.
Sarah of Sarah Bee Talent was there. She was such a good guest and I had written about it. It’s interesting as the Solo Project starts to sunset, I have this Solo economy idea that is very interesting and is a little ahead. In the same way that Solo felt ahead of its time years ago. The Solo economy project feels ahead of its time.
The idea essentially is half of you as adults are unmarried. We know all the data. Half of them are not interested in dating or relationships at the moment. Twenty-nine percent of households in the United States are Solo. You’re seeing these trends everywhere in the world, especially like Europe, but also even in Asia, and so on. Yet the world is still two institutions, government, business, healthcare, religion, are still operating on this old, “Everybody’s going to couple up,” stake and largely stay coupled up.
I’ve been writing about it. My vision, if I don’t lose steam, is a mosaic. I’ve been writing essays about it. I had a religious one come out. I had the workplace where one came out. I had one about tax and personal finance come out. I wrote a white paper about marketing and selling. I’m working on an idea around government more generally healthcare. Those are in the planning stages. I even have one about media, so how our likes television and films don’t do a good enough job reflecting the number of singles that we have.
When you say essays come out, where do they go?
Most of them have come out in something called the conversation. This is something my CU and other universities use as a conduit to reach normal people with the scholarship of their work. A lot of the stuff has been there. I find that they’ve been very receptive to my essays, more so than when I pitch to the Atlantic or Harvard Business Review or whatnot. I have five or six essays that I’ve written for the conversation. I get to do this for the Solo project generally but then also as my job as a professor. I’m a business school professor on Behavioral Economist. It makes sense to be writing about these kinds of things.
Thought leadership for sure. Ahead of its time is great.
It’s been good. The Mosaic idea is that any one of the essays is very limited but you put them all together and they make up the Solo economy. Maybe someday I will write an overall article bringing it all together. Frankly, I’m doing this largely on faith that, at some point, I think the world will wake up and people will start to ask Google and AI about the singles market and singles an X and singles an Y then this work will pop up there and we’ll be a resource. I think of this as a form of scholarship but then also a form of advocacy.
If you’re starting a new business and you’re going to have employees, maybe you shouldn’t just default to the old way of doing employee benefits, doing employee scheduling, which can disadvantage singles. You can start fresh and here’s my essay showing you, “Here are some of the ways that the singles are disadvantaged without anybody even noticing.” Even singles themselves just accept it as, “This is the way the world is. I have to work the holidays because my personal life is not as valued as the personal life of a married co-worker.”
Even parents who are going to take their kids to supporting events and things like that and leaving work early. It’s not like you can count minute for minute, but how do single people get the flexibility to, “I’m going to a concert so I’m going to leave at 3:00 instead of 5:00 or whatever.”
It’s an interesting thing. First of all, you should get judged not by the number of hours that you work, but by the value you provide to begin with, in general. Everyone married or not married, family or no family, does believe in equal pay for equal work. If you start letting a group of people receive equal pay for unequal work, that is bad for morale. It’s fundamentally unfair.
You should give your employees some flexibility for important personal things in their life. It’s not up to you to decide what is important and what is not important as long as people are getting their job done. I don’t want to rehash that whole show, but there are a whole bunch of systems out there that can create equitable scheduling policies and stuff like that. Some people like to work the holidays because they’re required or some people cannot work the holidays. You can create market-based systems by which people get sorted according to their preferences.
There’s a whole bunch of that stuff. I was going to call it a single economy but I thought the Solo economy was sexier and a little more fun. I’ve been enjoying doing it. I don’t know what’s going to happen with it. I’m just going essay by essay, topic by topic. It will evolve. Thanks for asking about it. Julie, it’s been so wonderful to spend many hours in the Solo studio with you and with others. This was a success and like all things, good or bad, they must come to an end. I love the fact that all this gear is not going to collect dust and is going to get used for your new project.
I’m excited, so thank you.
I look forward to tuning in. Cheers.
Important Links
- Solo Thoughts 19: A-Life vs. B-Life – Previous Episode
- Solo
- The Second Mountain
- The Wim Hof Method
- Sharon Salzberg
- Singles in the Workplace: How Companies Can Better Support Solo Employees – Previous Episode
About Julie Nirvelli
Julie Nirvelli is an entrepreneur, community builder, and founder of Spark Coollective, a curated community for business owners who believe the most meaningful opportunities come through authentic relationships.
What started as a local community in Colorado is now evolving into a licensing opportunity for entrepreneurs who want to build connection-driven communities in their own markets. Julie is passionate about helping people create businesses and lives that feel aligned, expansive, and deeply connected.
When she’s not bringing people together, you’ll likely find her traveling, exploring personal growth, or having conversations about what makes a remarkable life. Regular listeners will recognize Julie as Peter’s soul sister.