Peter McGraw talks with Lucy Meggeson—host of Thrive Solo and author of a new book Shiny Happy Singles (UK) / Thrive Solo (US)—about embracing single, child-free living as a path to freedom, joy, and reinvention.
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Listen to Episode #252 here
Lucy Meggeson is Thriving Solo
Welcome back. Our guest is the glorious disruptor of Spinster Myths and the voice behind Thrive Solo, a podcast to celebrate single child-free living as a powerful, joyful choice. Note, it was previously known as Spinsterhood Reimagined. We’re here because she has put her perspectives on paper with her new book, Thrive Solo: Embracing the Freedom, Joy, and Opportunity of a Single, Childfree Life. Please welcome Lucy Meggeson.
Peter, thank you for having me.
It’s welcome back, actually.
It’s great to be here. Seriously, thank you for having me. It is wonderful to be here and great to see you. How are you?
Never better.
Good.
I’m loving life.
Glad to hear it.
I always enjoy our conversations.
Me too.
Lucy’s Journey: From Radio to Detective to Solo Advocacy & Finding Freedom
For some audience, we have a lot of new audience in light of the TED Talk. They’re streaming into the solo movement for folks who haven’t been lucky enough to hear us talk. Let’s get a taste of your story. How is it that you’ve come to be on the solo podcast, have your own podcast, and have your own new book, which is exciting?
Thank you very much. To give a little bit of context, I mean, I will start by saying that I never in a million years ever anticipated or intended really to make a career out of being single and not having kids. I laugh when I think about it because it wasn’t an intentional thing in a way. Going back 5 or 6 years, I had been doing the 9:00 to 5:00 grind in London for many years, and to put it in context in terms of my relationship history.
I’ve had many lovely boyfriends over the years. I used to say long-term relationships, but now I laugh at that because they’re really not long-term at all in relation to how long my friends have been with their partner for twenty years. My longest relationship is like 3.5 years, or four years. Anyway, to put it in context of my relationship history, it’s not as if I’ve been single forever and ever. I’ve been in many relationships from literally when I was a teenager up until, it’s nearly my eighth anniversary, Peter, I cannot believe it. Eight years of being single in October.
Anyway, rewind 5 or 6 years, and actually, really to COVID when for a long time I had been feeling that I knew that I wanted more from my life. That was in the context of work. I’d done various jobs. I worked for BBC Radio 2 for a long time. I’d done various jobs in London, but I’d always felt this sense that there was something more for me, and I’m not fulfilling my potential. To cut a long story short, in lockdown, I cannot remember if I told you this, but I randomly jumped from my job at Radio 2. I became a detective for some crazy reason.
Like a private investigator?
No. It’s like a metropolitan police detective. Have I never told you this?
You’ve never told me this.
I really thought you knew this, but it’s a wild story, and ironically, it’s to do with my most recent ex-boyfriend because my last relationship wasn’t a great relationship, and I knew him through my job at Radio 2. He didn’t work for Radio 2, but he is a musician whom I met in that world. Basically, I heard that the Met were doing this new initiative whereby you could join as what they called a direct entry detective.
Just to clarify, I had never ever had any desire to be like in the police, but I had always had a real fascination with crime. I did psychology at university, and for a moment there in my early twenties, I was thinking about becoming a forensic psychologist, but I didn’t. When this thing came up, and I was looking for an escape from my current relationship, I applied to become a direct entry detective, got in, and it was this whole massive great process.
Anyway, the minute I set foot there, I was like, “Christ, what have I done? This is not my tribe.” I basically stayed for about a year and a half. I won’t bore you with the details, but it was in equal measure a fascinating and horrifying experience. I fricking hated it, and so I left. Going back to the point of this story, in lockdown for the first time in my whole adult life, I’d actually had time to sit and be still and think and work out what the hell it was I wanted for my life.
That started me on a journey of personal growth. I always call it a spiritual awakening because I feel like that’s what it was. I started reading all the books, listening to all the podcasts, and all the interviews about the power of the mind, and all of this stuff. I went down this road of just opening my mind up. During the course of that journey, I made a decision to take back control of my life. I quit my job. This was literally mid-COVID.
I got a part-time job in a coffee shop, one of the coffee shops that was still opening because we were literally serving through the window in like a little hatch because obviously it was lockdowns and stuff. I did the part-time coffee shop job and became my older sister’s cleaner, and did this for about two years. For the first time in my life, I actually felt so much more free and so much happier than I had in such a long time, because although I was doing these two jobs that I didn’t intend on doing forever and ever, it allowed me to just slow down and work out what it was I wanted to do with my life.
During that time, I think it was July 2021, so like a year and a bit into lockdown, I sat outside my flat on a beautiful summer’s afternoon in London. I was reading. I always use this talk about this story. I think I talk about it in the book, but I was reading through some WhatsApp messages with a group of friends of mine, all of whom were married with kids. I just remember thinking to myself, “Rather than feeling any envy or jealousy about their lives with their husbands and kids, all I could feel was, God damn, I am so lucky. I felt this sense of smugness.”
In that moment, it was like I had this weird universal divine download of like, “Why do people think that my life is less than just because I’m single and I don’t have kids? This is crazy. Why does everybody think that single people are like these miserable loser weirdos? When in fact it’s just not the case for all of us. I walked back into my flat that afternoon, and I sat down and started writing. Actually, that writing was not the book that is now out in the world.
That subsequently led to me starting a podcast in February 2022, which is why I say it wasn’t really an intentional decision to start talking about being single and not having kids. It was something that really came to me just out of the blue. I started the podcast, and then I got a book deal, and I started a membership for Single Women, and here we are, nearly four years later, which is completely wild. That’s just a little bit of context about my story. Too much information?
No, it was great. The detective thing is so interesting. I guess you’re a journalist.
You’re just stuck on that now, aren’t you?
You’re used to investigating. It’s a different form of investigation. What I like about it is the fact that it wasn’t a fit. It’s not a problem. You were able to, in part, because you were single and child-free, able to investigate that. You were able to experiment and take that chance in a way, I can imagine coming home one day and over family dinner, I’m quitting my job as a journalist, and I would become a detective, right?
Yes. Also, what was crazy at the time, I think my friends and family thought I was bonkers, but I’ve always been one of these people who have always followed my heart and my intuition. Actually, I think we should follow our intuition more because it is there for a reason. What was so crazy was that, of course, I’d left this really to all intents and purposes, a really bloody good job at Radio 2, a really good career to become a detective.
Five minutes later, I left that job too. Actually, there was definitely a moment where I was like, “How can I do this? I’ve just left one career. Now I’m going to leave another one.” This is a totally different subject, but I think we should be more okay with quitting things that don’t feel right. I think far too many of us stay in jobs that don’t feel right, but we feel like we have to stay. This is another conversation for a different podcast.
The UK’s Solo Scene: A Cultural Observation
Staying in relationships that don’t serve us in the same way. That is very true. I want to ask you about. I’ve spent a little bit of time in the UK, but not much.
Didn’t come and visit me, though, how rude.
This was before I met you. There seems to be an over-representation of voices in the solo movement from the UK.
Do you think?
I think so. Given how small the country is in terms of other podcasts, other books, etc. I’ve also noticed this in Australia, just like the number of people coming to the solo movement who are Australian. Is there something about the culture that is leading to this? Do you think? I don’t have an answer to the question.
Honestly, no. I don’t think there is anything that doesn’t also exist in the US that exists in the UK, which means that there would be more of a movement of this in the UK. Actually, I don’t know that I necessarily agree that there are more people in this space in the UK than in the US. Who do you have in mind, just as a matter of interest? Nicholas Lawson, she’s the first person that springs to mind.
That’s right. She has a new book. I’m planning to talk to her. I’ve had Pip Brown on the podcast. She’s British. Adrian Dunn is Irish and had the solo power. Look, these aren’t big numbers, but relatively speaking, it seems like more. I’m just curious about it.
I feel like I haven’t given a very good answer, but no, I personally haven’t noticed anything in the UK that would mean this was a bigger movement here than it is in the US. Interesting to think about.
Reclaiming “Spinster”: Why the Podcast Name Changed
I was just curious. When you first started, you had this download, this divine download, and you were doing all this writing. You were focused on reclaiming this term, spinster. Originally, you started out with your branding as Spinsterhood reimagined. Why’d you decide to try to rehab that word? Why the use of that phrase and why the change?
It’s funny because this is going to sound ridiculous, but I cannot remember the exact moment when I decided to use the word spinster in the title of the podcast. What I do know is that I was using it in an ironic way because I would never describe myself as, I would never go, “I’m Lucy Meggeson, I’m a spinster, how about you?”
Who does that? I used it in an ironic way. Again, the name was Spinsterhood Reimagined. It’s just the fact that is the only word really that describes a woman who is both single and doesn’t have kids, and it entirely carries negative connotations, let’s face it. I guess I wanted to use that word for that reason to reimagine it.
I remember having a conversation with a very good friend of mine, Claire, who we walk along the river in Richmond, where my flat is in London, and I told her that I was going to call it Spinsterhood Reimagined, and she was like, “You cannot use the word spinster.” I was like, “No, but that’s exactly why I want to use it.” Again, I cannot remember the moment when I thought, “I’m going to call the podcast Spinsterhood Reimagined.”
I went with that name for three years, and I loved it. I still feel quite sad and I feel slight grief about the fact that the podcast is no longer called that and is now Thrive Solo, but one of the reasons I made the change is because I think that because of the negative connotations, I think that part A, there were guests who I reached out to who I think either never responded to me or said no, because they didn’t want to be associated with a podcast with that name.
Also, I think that I missed listeners who were scrolling through and who again were like well I don’t want to listen to a podcast called that because they didn’t know me they didn’t know the podcast they didn’t know my vibe and all the rest of it and they perhaps scroll past because of that word because it is such a negative word.
Also, one of the reasons I changed the name to Thrive Solo is not least because my membership for single women is called Thrive Solo, but it was largely because I felt like that name widened the conversation that I was able to have on the podcast. Also, the podcast, although it is for single women without kids, is very much about personal growth and living your best life and really thriving, because that is what I’m actually so passionate about. As much, if not more than the single child free thing, I’m really passionate about helping single women live their best possible lives and not holding back and not waiting to create amazing lives for themselves just because they happen to be single.
I just felt that the name Thrive Solo, obviously, made sense because my membership is called Thrive Solo, and now the US version of the book is called Thrive Solo, although for any UK listeners, it’s actually called Shiny Happy Singles in the UK, which has been confusing with the marketing, I can tell you. That name just felt like it was a better fit. I really love the name Thrive Solo. I’m pleased that I made the change for sure.
It makes sense. Again, it’s easier to swim downstream than it is upstream. As nice as it would be to reclaim that name in part, because one of the things that I realized once I entered into this world is that the spinsters of yesterday are heroes. They were women who pursued their freedom, who found a way to live outside of their father’s rule or outside of their husband’s rule. They occupied this really special space in society where they were able to be independent. They were able to earn their own money and to make a choice to be single and child-free. It is a shame that spinsterhood, unlike bachelorhood, has such a negative connotation.
I know it is. You’re right, because actually, a spinster is an independent woman who’s able to look after herself. The irony of it is, it was those women who were able to go their own way and swim against the tide. Of course, they were vilified, they were witches, they were crazy. There was something weird about them. This is one of the narratives that I’m so passionate about changing. I think, like you just said, bachelor, there’s much more of a cool vibe around the word bachelor. If you’re a bachelor, you’re living in your bachelor pad, having a great life.
Whereas if you’re a spinster, you’re like a sad, lonely woman who’s dressed in black with a high collar, surrounded by a thousand cats. It’s a very different connotation. Swimming against the tide means that you have strength because it takes a lot more strength to swim against the tide than it does to just go in the same direction as the rest of the world, which is what most people do. Although having said that, the number of singles, as you and I both know, is growing and growing.
Growing globally. It is. I also appreciate the breadth of your conversations, because they are near mine. To me, if you do a podcast just about being single, it ends up limiting the topics. To me, the idea had always been that my singleness, my bachelorhood, allowed me opportunities that partnered people didn’t have.
We’ve already highlighted one for you. The ability to try to change careers midlife. The question becomes, “What are you going to do?” I like to say that singles have more optionality just because they don’t have someone else vetoing their choices. They don’t have to negotiate their choices. They don’t have to compromise to the same degree. They’d still have obligations, and they still have relationships, but they just don’t have this escalator that they’re on, which can be quite limiting.
To give them ideas, models, perspectives about what they may do with that time, energy, perhaps money that would have gone into living a traditional life, buying a home, and doing all those things that married people, especially with kids, tend to often have to do. I really appreciate that perspective. Also, it would just become redundant. You just have the same conversations over and over again.
Totally. To your point there, one of the things that I talk about ad nauseam on the podcast is exactly what you’ve just said. It’s like being single and not having kids. It just opens up so many possibilities and opportunities, but not to say that people who are married with kids cannot do great things with their lives, because of course they can.
There is a freedom and there is an opportunity in single life, especially single life without kids, that just simply cannot be the case if you’re married with kids. One of the things that I always try to help open single women’s and men’s minds too is the fact that let’s not look at this as some lapse it gives us. It’s exciting because it means you get to focus on your passions and your purpose, and you get to self-actualise and work out what it is that you want from your life.
That to me is incredibly exciting. That freedom and that opportunity are one of the most wonderful and, like all the rest of the benefits, completely underrated benefits. It blows my mind regularly that we are not talking more about the host of wonderful benefits and advantages that come with being single and child-free, and opportunity and possibility and freedom are to me the big ones. It is an opportunity.
The Breadth of Solo Life: Opportunities Beyond Partnership
I think so too. I think that some people live their best lives on the escalator. Some people live their best lives off it, like you. There are people who could go either way depending on time in life, the person they meet, and the situation. I like the idea of moving between these worlds, one not being better than the other, but whether it is the right fit for you, given your partner or partners, given your stage in life, etc., rather than obviously this default.
I also think that a mix is good for society. I like to say, “I want to live in a society that’s half engineers and half artists.” I don’t want to drive over the bridges in a society that’s all artists. I don’t want to live in a world that’s just engineers. It’s not that terribly entertaining. I think the same is true for married people and single people.
I couldn’t agree more. It’s one of the points that I make in the book, and I’ve made over and over again on the podcast. I’ve said it so many times that what I am not saying is that single life or solo life is any better. I’m just saying that it is no worse. The two paths are equal. That’s always been one of my main points, and this is what I want the world to understand, acknowledge, and appreciate that every life path is valid.
It doesn’t matter whether you are single and childless, it doesn’t matter whether you’re married and you have kids, because at the end of the day, whatever life you live, it is full of joy and it is full of sorrow, it is full of darkness, it is full of light. When you get married and you have kids, you are not protected from the shite that life throws at you. In the same way, I don’t think that when you’re single and you don’t have kids, it doesn’t mean life is any worse. Again, to your point, it’s just a different life.
I think this is what, hopefully, society and the world are starting to very slowly realize, but there’s still a long way to go. It is still seen that the relationship escalator that you talk about is the norm, the better, the superior way of living. My point is no, it is not any better. It is not any worse. It is simply a different way of life. As you say, getting married and having kids suits many people. It can be a wonderful life for lots of people, but equally, a solo life can be a wonderful life for lots of people.
Shifting Perceptions: Will Singlehood Ever Be Equal?
I want to ask you to step back for a moment. You’ve been at this for about three years.
Three and a half, coming out four in February.
I had a bit of a head start with this, but not much, you’re a few years. You were saying this point about how slow this is happening. It feels a little, I don’t know, like a trickle at first, but what’s the saying about bankruptcy is that it’s like a slow, and then all of a sudden, bankruptcy happens. Do you get the sense that it is changing? Do you get the sense that in our lifetime? I’ll give you an example of this. It’s hard to predict the future, but I want you to.
No pressure.
I have a friend. He sent me a book that I was unaware of. I thought I had all the single books when I was getting the podcast started. It was called The Challenge of Being Single. It was written by two women, by the way, which tends to be the case. I am, in some ways, almost a lone male voice in this space. If you look at all the books, with the exception of one other book called Single On Purpose, they’re written by women.
All the other podcasts are hosted by women. This book was written by two women, a woman who was a professor at USC and a woman who was a journalist. The professor at USC had a seminar about singlehood, and the book was called The Challenge of Being Single. I started reading the book, and it mentioned the 45 million single people in the United States at the time. I was like, “45 million, what are we talking about?” I flipped to the publish date on the book, and the publish date was 1974.
Two years before I was born.
Four years after I was born. I was deflated by this because if you read the book, many of the same issues still exist. The stereotyping, the prejudice, the financial challenges, the tax laws, all those things. If you were to write that book today, which we did, we probably would have called it The Opportunity of Being Single. In that way, it has changed, but I went to try to find these authors because I was like, “Maybe I could have them on the podcast.” They’re both deceased. I found their obituaries, and I was thinking, like, imagine writing that book in 1974, and then you spend your whole life, and nothing changes.
I do.
As I said, imagine going your whole life as an advocate for singles and nothing really changes in any way. Are we just going to see a little drip, a few more voices, or are we going to see some hockey stick, some major change in the way people think, view, feel, behave with regard to singlehood?
That is the million-dollar question. I have said to people in my membership, I think I’ve said it on the podcast, that I don’t believe that in my lifetime, we are going to find any real meaningful equality when it comes to single life, because changes like this just take generations. What is interesting is that, in terms of whether I think I have seen a change, like in the time that I’ve done the podcast, etc.
What’s interesting is that I really have ups and downs about this because obviously the life that I am currently leading and the conversations that I have on a regular basis make me feel incredibly hopeful because I have conversations every fricking day with single women who are rocking their lives. I get the real impression that I get many messages from listeners saying, “It’s so amazing to hear somebody talk about this. I completely resonate.”
To me, through my personal lens of life, it feels like there is a change. It really does feel like things are shifting. Again, to specify, through my lens of life, I feel like there really is a movement happening. I then wonder whether that is only through my lens and the world that I am living in, the conversations that I am having, the people that I am following, and what I am tuning into. It’s all about what you’re tuning into?
Actually, if I took off my glasses and put somebody else’s glasses on, the stigma and all the narratives are as strong as ever. The answer to your question, I feel like I cannot answer it because I have these two, it’s like these two sides of it, depending on what day, depending on who I’m talking to, depending on who I happen to be with, where I happen to be. Again, on the one hand, I really feel like there is such a movement happening, and that we know there are. We said this earlier, the number of single people is no doubt growing. That is a fact.
One thing that people in my membership particularly will often say to me is, “Where are all the single people? Where are they?” One thing that single women certainly find, in my experience, excuse my French, sorry guys, to swear. I forget that not everyone swears like a trooper like I do on my podcast. One thing that many single women I speak to have trouble with and struggle with is finding other single people in the world, in their vicinity, in their locale.
The crazy thing is, it’s like, there are millions of single people, the numbers are growing, but where the hell are they all? It’s a really funny one. Again, I believe that in my lifetime, I’m not going to feel like being single is as normal as being in a relationship. I just don’t think that we’re there yet. I really don’t. My niece is nineteen. I like to think that in her lifetime, perhaps it will get to the point where those two paths of life really are equal, but we are still very far from that. What do you think? What are your thoughts?
I share your perspective. Obviously, I did not do this to change the world. That was not my goal. I think that you can, at the same time, expect institutional change to be slow, you can help individuals. That has very clearly been the case. The thing that keeps me going, especially now that I feel like I’ve done the heavy lifting. I just celebrated episode 250.
I had my own book. I have this Ted talk that came out. That’s been very well received. I’m not sure there’s much else for me to do in terms of the typical milestones with regard to helping people. I don’t do coaching like you do. I don’t have a group. I do have a solo community that’s online that I dabble with. The thing that keeps coming up and keeps me coming back and engaged is the number of people who send their thanks.
They just said, “I thought I was the only one,” to your point. “I think I found my people. Thank you for the perspective, the language, the model.” What I hope is that the conversations like this and the podcasts, the books, etc., provide inspiration for people to not just feel better about their choice or their circumstance, but also then to look to take advantage of it in a world that’s not really pointing that out otherwise.
The Power of Trailblazing: Inspiring Others in the Solo Movement
At the end of the day, someone’s got to say it. Somebody has got to be having these conversations. I mean, this is how change happens, isn’t it? Someone has to stick their head above the parapet. Somebody has to be a trailblazer. I was talking to the, I don’t know whether the fabulous Marianne Power. She is absolutely wonderful. I’ve had her on the podcast before. You should definitely get in touch with her. She is amazing.
She has a book out called Love Me. It’s absolutely brilliant. She’s British. She’s a writer, author. She’s amazing, Marianne Power. Anyway, I had her back on the podcast. It hasn’t gone out yet, but we recorded, and we’re talking about how it feels to put a book out in the world where you’re essentially making yourself very vulnerable. It’s really funny. Just for a little bit of background about Marianne. She had a very strict Catholic upbringing.
Sex was shameful. It wasn’t talked about. Long story short, her book is brilliant. I cannot say enough times how brilliant her book is. Again, it’s called Love Me. It’s the story of her exploring what it means to be happily single, whether it’s possible to be happily single, and you can still have meaningful sex if you’re single, and all of these things that she explores.
The really funny thing about Marianne and me is that we have these two completely opposite experiences of sex, which is that I had loads of sex when I was younger and all through my teens, 20s, 30s, always had a boyfriend, always having sex, and then I have not had sex for I think it must be six years now. Marianne had the opposite experience in that she didn’t have that much when she was younger, but then she actually ended up exploring Tantra.
She went to these Tantra retreats that were the most painfully embarrassing things, but ended up being the most wonderful things. We laughed the first time I got on the podcast because it was like, “I haven’t had it for years, and you’re getting loads of it.” We have these, again, very opposite stories, but they complement each other. Anyway, we were talking about how uncomfortable it is. You’ll be able to relate to this.
When you write a book, and I did a chapter about sex, and I literally start the chapter off saying, “I haven’t had sex in five years.” I’ve talked about this in public. Although I talk about it, that doesn’t mean that it’s not uncomfortable. It doesn’t mean that I’m not cringing, going, “Which of my ex-boyfriends are going to see this? This is so embarrassing, the shame about not having sex.”
In the same way that Marianne was like, “I’m talking about going to a tantric sex retreat. We were talking about how someone has to be a trailblazer in these conversations because that is how they happen. Most people don’t want to stick their head above the parapet because it’s not easy and it’s not comfortable. Unless the likes of you and I and Marianne and whoever else talk about these things, then nothing will ever change.
I think we just have to accept the fact that we are doing our bit. We may not be changing the world, but we are changing the lives of a lot of people. That is, we know that through the messages that you get, I know that through the messages that I get. Even if we just change the life of 1 person or 10 people, that is pretty incredible.
I totally agree. One of the great benefits of the solo project for me is that I don’t give a s*** what people think about me anymore. I do not care. I cannot say that I felt that way before. I would say I certainly sometimes still struggle with it. The old operating system will get booted up, but it has been so liberating to be able to own who I am and to be able to speak about it privately and publicly in a way that I hope inspires people, that I hope has some small influence in the world in that way. I think your conversation with Marianne is really like, it’s so great. Here are these two women, they’re in completely opposite places, and they both feel uncomfortable. There’s no winning. If you go by the rules of society.
Also, when it comes to sex, we’re in two completely different situations, but we’re both really happy with our lives. We’re both very happy with our single lives that look very different. I’ve been single for, as I said, nearly eight years. I haven’t had a shag for nearly six. Whereas Marianne, also single, but Marianne has friends and lovers when she wants to have some deliciously gorgeous sex with, she can, but there are no strings attached.
We are living these completely different lives, both solo, but they look very different. The point is that we’re both happily solo, and it just goes to show that it is so possible to live a different life. That’s one of the things that we also talked about in our conversation, which is like, what we do as a society and in our culture is like, we try to put people in boxes.
It’s like, “You are my boyfriend, therefore you fulfil that role. You are my friend, therefore that is what you are and that is what you aren’t.” If we were just a bit more fluid about what any relationship is, because ultimately any relationship can be whatever the hell we want it to be, but we’ve tried to put every single role into a box. Does that make sense? I think it’s partly why there are so many people who, let’s face it, are unhappy in relationships, not least because we’re all, or so many of us are, trying to get everything from one person.
It used to be that we lived in tribes, and you got lots of things from lots of different people. Whereas we’ve narrowed it down to this one romantic relationship that you’re supposed to get everything you need from. That’s really hard. I’m not saying it doesn’t work for some people, but I think for a lot of people, it doesn’t work. That’s part of the problem with long-term relationships.
Gender and Singlehood: Why More Women in the Movement?
Certainly. I want to ask you a follow-up question. I asked earlier about whether there was something special about the UK. There certainly is something special about being a woman and the movement. As we mentioned, there are all these female voices. Obviously, you were an early one. Why are there so many women talking about this, in your opinion, relative to the number of men?
Do you want to know my honest opinion?
A 100% yes.
I believe that it is because women are better at being single than men are. I think men find it harder for whatever reason. I mean, there is a reason why married men and single women are the happiest demographic. The research shows it. Single women and married men are happiest. That makes total sense to me.
Again, to your question, I think that men, for whatever reason, find it being in a relationship, but I think they just find it harder to be single. I think that might be because of the way that men have been socialized, and in the way that women are encouraged to show, women are allowed to show their emotions and communicate their emotions, and men haven’t necessarily been raised in that same way. Women perhaps find it easier to make those connections.
Actually, one really interesting thing. I had somebody on the podcast ages ago, another author called Rachel Thompson. Rachel was talking about the fact that she had spoken to somebody who had done research into the fact that, actually, what we need is connection, but it doesn’t necessarily have to be in the form of romantic love.
I think there are many women talking about being single because actually more women are thriving single than men because, like I, for example, I feel like I have enough connection and love in my life from lots of different relationships with lots of different people to fulfil my needs. Maybe I find that easier as a woman because of the way that I’ve been socialised as a woman. I think men struggle more with that. You and I have talked before about the male loneliness pandemic and all of this. This is a whole other conversation, isn’t it, but a fascinating one and an important one too.
I do agree that men rely on their romance disproportionately to get their connection needs met. That obviously is very problematic if you’re unable to do romance. If you’re struggling with it or you get divorced. I do think that women are better at getting help than men, too, hence more conversation. Women do therapy more than men.
Women read self-help and self-development books more in that sense. A former guest, Monique Murad, sent me a voice note recently, and she was commenting on this disproportionate number of female voices. She said that her perspective, and I hope I’m getting this correct. I’m going by memory. Monique, forgive me if I don’t exactly nail this. She was saying that for women, this is an extension of a path that they’ve been on for a long time, which is a path of liberation, and that there’s still a lot of pressure to marry.
In many ways, this invention of marriage was something that occurred when women were property. The average woman, unlike the spinsters of yesterday, needed a man to survive. What we’re getting to in this world, and a big part of the rise of single living, is that as a woman, you don’t need a man to survive anymore. You certainly don’t need one to thrive. That is a point of friction. It’s a challenge escaping the cultural norms and then creating a playbook of sorts, which is what you’ve done with Thrive Solo for women to be independent of men in a financial way, in all these ways, but especially that.
Also, can I just say, because I wouldn’t want anyone to think that I encourage people not to be in relationships. That’s not the case. What I do encourage is for women not to get into relationships that are not good enough for them. To your point about women doing more therapy, doing more self-help and all of this, I think part of the reason why more women are talking about being single is because there is also a bit of a movement happening which ties into the single movement about women who are just like, “We are not going to put up with any subpar crap relationship anymore because we don’t need to.”
At the end of the day, like you just said, more women do the work on themselves than men do. More women read personal growth books and do that in a work that I talk about so much on the podcast and in my membership. I think women are starting to realise that they don’t need to settle for a relationship just for the sake of being in a relationship. That is not good enough anymore. I think more and more women are really starting to feel that, and they’re hearing more women talking about that.
They’re realizing that they have the option. Also, women are starting to realize that it is not better to be in a shitty relationship than to be single. It is always better to be single than to be in a shitty relationship. That is one of the things that I talk about. Again, I do not want to think that, I would never want anyone to think that I’m all that bloody Lucy Meggeson who just encourages women not to be in relationships. That’s not the case.
I am purely saying the relationship that you have with yourself is the most important one, number one. Number two, please do not get into a relationship just because you think it’s better than being single, because that is not the case. The right relationship is awesome and wonderful, but the wrong relationship, no, we’re not bloody doing that anymore.
Just going back to this personal growth stuff, guys don’t do as much work on themselves. I think this is part of the problem. The whole solo movement and that being much more women, and then the male loneliness pandemic. It’s perhaps, dare I say, that men could do with doing a little bit of work on themselves and becoming a little bit more self-aware and asking, “Why am I struggling to find a girlfriend? Why am I finding this so hard? Do I need to look at myself?”
I think women are more prone, perhaps, to putting the blame on themselves and thinking, “I need to do some work on myself.” Whereas maybe guys think more about it, they’re more outward, I don’t know if I’m saying this the right way, but perhaps they aren’t necessarily looking at themselves to see what they might need to change about themselves to show up as better human beings.
Authentic Thriving: The Magnetic Energy of Self-Love
I totally get that. One of the messages that I keep repeating is that you mentioned this idea of loving yourself first. I like to say you ought to live a remarkable life because you deserve a remarkable life, rather than trying to live a remarkable life in order to attract a romantic partner. I think you could do the same activity, but the motivation matters.
Let’s say you start playing guitar, or you decide to start going to the gym, or you decide to travel. Whatever these things might be. You start doing poetry, but the list is endless. Here’s a good one. You start to cook. Why should you do that? You should do these things because you like writing poetry, and you like the new challenge.
It’s a great way to express yourself in a way that you have never before, or that you start to cook because you get to eat healthier and save money, and I get to have this challenge of creation, etc. Now, the fact that may make you a more appealing person, should you want to date, because you’re more fit, because you’re more interesting, because you can make a lovely meal, is a bonus, is the way that I end up seeing this. It’s just a matter of shifting.
That’s the happy byproduct.
The motivation is about how I take care of myself. How do I thrive? It just happens to be the case that people who are thriving are sexy.
Exactly, so much more attractive.
It’s so much more. I believe, and this is maybe a little bit woo-woo, that people are very good at picking up the why. They can tune in to the fact that you’re doing it because it enlivens you, rather than you’re doing it for some imaginary person that you hope will fall in love with you.
Energy does not lie. As you may know, I bloody love the woo-woo. I’m all over it. One thing I’ve talked about many times is that when it comes to, for example, one of the conversations that happens in our membership and just on a podcast about single women, I talk a lot about aging, and I talk a lot about how we’ve got to be embracing aging.
Of course, for women, there is so much pressure to hold back the ears and get rid of the wrinkles. I’m like, “God’s sake.” The one thing I say is, you may disagree, you’re a guy, I’ll have to ask you, but it’s not so much about what you look like. It is the energy that you are emitting. That is what is attractive. I’ve been attracted to guys who are not aesthetically handsome, but boy, they are hot because of who they are, because of the energy that they’re putting out.
Back to when you are doing the work on yourself, when you’re taking care of yourself, when you are interested in things and people and life, that makes you an interesting person. If you’re spending every single day at home alone, sitting scrolling through your phone, that is not going to make you a particularly interesting person.
Let’s not even go there with phones. It’s another conversation that you and I have had. We should be doing these things for ourselves, not for somebody else, but a happy byproduct of that is. Of course, when you’re feeling great about yourself and you are thriving in yourself and in your life and your loving life, you’re bloody sexy to the rest of the world. It’s confidence.
I want to give you an example of this that really inspired me. I have a friend who’s a solo, and he purchased a battery-powered turntable that has a built-in speaker and a battery. I actually have the same one now because he inspired me. I’m living this much more analog life where, after dinner, the phone is off, only books, handwriting, and vinyl. He took this portable turntable out to the park and some albums and some books. He took himself on a self-date.
I’ve done this now, too. I’ve basically stolen this idea from him. He’s in the park, and he’s reading his book, and he’s listening to his vinyl. This woman comes up to him, which I can tell you as a man in America never happens. A woman will never approach you. This woman approaches him. He’s so into his book, having the time of his life with these ideas. He doesn’t even notice her. She basically has to tap him on the shoulder to get his attention. She basically just started chatting him up in this way. It’s a perfect example of this.
If he had gone to the park, being like, ‘I’m going to pick up chicks, being the cool guy with the turntable,” women would be repelled by him. There was just something about how authentic he was having this amazing experience solo that attracted this person to walk across the green and tap him on the shoulder and be like, “What are you listening to? What are you doing? You look like you’re having a great time.” It’s a perfect example of what you were just talking about.
I love that so much, and therein lies the lesson for not just the guys listening, but to the girls listening to this as well. That is the frigging key. If you want to attract people, not just romantic partners, if you want to attract people to you, anyone in your life, focus on yourself, and inevitably, because like you say, the guy was just there having a fricking great time by himself, happy in his own skin, happy in his own head, happy in his own world.
Of course, the girl was going to walk over because that is damn attractive. Literally, I cringe when I see what some guys do that they think is attractive, like driving the Porsche and the watch and the sunglasses, and I literally stuff that I so don’t give a toss about that it actually turns me off. If a guy turned up in a Lamborghini with an expensive Rolex and a pair of whatever wanky sunglasses, I would literally be like, for some reason, I think it’s sexy.
Maybe it’s sexy to some women, but not to me. That is just such a brilliant lesson. If only everyone would listen to what you have just said about that, because truly, it’s the key. It’s also the key to world peace, may I just say. This is obviously going off on a complete tangent, but I know, without getting too like “Lucy, calm down.”
The Power of Inward Focus: Cultivating Inner Peace
Honestly, if we all just went inwards and we all just focused on what made us feel good and what made us light the f*** up and radiated that good energy out into the world, it would be a more peaceful world if everybody went inwards instead of just looking outwards all the time. What’s everyone else doing? “What are they doing? Let’s scroll through Instagram. What’s that person doing? Stop looking at what everyone else is doing and work out what you’re doing. Bring me in, Peter.
I’ll add another story here. It’s a flip. It’s the reverse. No, it’s not a problem. I joined a boxing gym in Denver. I’ve started boxing. I bring my boxing gloves when I travel, and it’s been so wonderful because I go to these gyms and get trained. You get to meet new people. You get a sense of the culture. It’s a good workout.
I joined this really gritty boxing gym. I tried two boxing gyms, like the yuppie gym that was close to my house, air-conditioned, and sterile, and then this, like, really gritty, un-air-conditioned one that’s a pain in the ass to get to, but it just feels alive there. I started going. I go to a class on Monday afternoons typically, and there’s a woman who’s in the class, and she might be the sexiest woman on the planet for me right now because she does it because she likes to do it.
It’s not for any other reason. It’s so authentic, it’s so interesting. She has her own flair, and it’s just great. Again, it’s like the perfect example of Are you going to do what you want to do? Are you going to go to the place that you want to be, and are you going to make the life that you want it to be? It’s that which makes her so interesting to me as an observer in this place that she very easily could seem out of place, yet isn’t.
That’s the thing when you’re in it, when you’re in the moment, and you are just loving what you are doing. As you say, you’re not trying to impress anyone, you’re not trying to be sexy for anyone, you’re just enjoying yourself and your life. It’s like authenticity is the most attractive thing in the world, yet it is the thing that we find it hardest as human beings to be. It’s so ironic. The thing that we find hardest out of anything is to be who we truly are.
I really believe that. Why is that? Why have we got to this place where the thing that is the hardest for most of us is to be who we really are? It’s because we feel like we have to be this, and we feel like we have to do that. It’s back to the whole solo conversation. “We feel like we should get married and we feel like we should have kids because that’s what people do.”
Solitude and Connection: Balancing Inner Peace with Community
I did a deep dive into this in the solo book, looking at the human being’s superpower, which is our ability to cooperate. The way that we cooperate is that we rely on norms, the unwritten rules of the world. Now the unwritten rules, though, are written to help society function, not help the individual function. What ends up happening all too often, which is what you were just lamenting, is that people just default into the script.
They never actually consider that the rules of society may not serve them. Maybe the problem is that they feel very uncomfortable bending or breaking those rules because when you bend or break the rules, you end up getting the side eye. You end up having people s*** talk you. You have people who end up punishing you socially for doing this. Yet at the same time that happens, we’d like people who are cool.
What people who are cool do is they assert their autonomy. I had an episode. Are single people cool? My friend and colleague Caleb Warren, who studied coolness, asserts that single people are cooler than married people. Married people just follow the rules, but single people do not follow the rules in this way. The key, of course, though, is that you make the decisions for yourself. We like that when people go against the grain, not for the sake of going against the grain, but because they are compelled to go against the grain.
I want to pivot here and finish up with a couple of things from your book. In your book, you simultaneously address the joys of solitude, how your flat is your sanctuary, with community building and this notion of chosen family, especially around friendships, but also other types of platonic connections. Can you talk a little bit about these two sides of the coin, both solitude and connection, and their importance?
I’ll start with solitude. I think solitude is a stigma in the same way that there is a stigma around being single. There is a stigma around spending time alone. Actually, as I’ve talked about in the book, there is research to show the benefits of solitude. I think as human beings, we’re often told that the answer to all of our problems comes from other people.
Actually, sometimes there is just nothing more healing than spending time alone. Probably, you only need to ask most married mothers for a start, and they would probably agree that they would kill for a little bit of solitude. I think solitude is incredibly important. Obviously, I think some people could look at somebody like me, for example, I spend a lot of time by myself, and I absolutely love my alone time. I’m an introvert.
Me too.
You might not immediately assume that I was an introvert because I’m quite gobby and extroverted, but I’m an extroverted introvert. Anyway, I need my alone time, big time. I need it. The difference between extroverts and introverts, of course, is that extroverts get their energy from other people, whereas introverts get their energy from themselves, from being alone. I think that it’s on a spectrum.
There are some people who, like me, can spend an awful lot of time alone, and there are some people who need more connection and more people around them more often. In terms of what you asked about, the solitude, but then the community. I think we all need both of those things. I think we all need solitude. We all need time to just be by ourselves. Of course, we also all need connection, and we all need other people in our lives.
Even an introvert like me, I still need the people around me, but to the chapter about friendships, one of the things that I interviewed about 30 women for the book. The book is the stories of other women woven through the chapters. One of the things that single women that I interviewed talked about is how incredibly important their friends are to them because they are single. Friends become more like family because you don’t have your own family in that traditional sense.
Both of those things are important. I think, actually, we need to perhaps focus a bit more on the solitude part of it because we already know everybody thinks that we should be surrounded by people 24/7. If you spend too much time alone, then you’re some weirdo. In the same way that if you’re single, some people still might think you’re a weirdo or you’re less than, or there’s something wrong with you, all of those stories around being single.
The research, what’s so great is that the research on solitude is starting to show more and more of the benefits rather than the downsides of it. Of course, solitude is the joy of being alone. I think part of the problem with the word solitude is that people conflate it with the word loneliness, and they are two completely different things.
Again, what I talk about in the book is that being alone, as in not being in a couple and living by oneself, does not equate to loneliness in the same way that there are people who are married who are incredibly lonely in their relationship. It’s not about whether or not you are physically in the same bed or house as another person. I believe it’s largely to do with what is going on in your own head. I think loneliness is much more about the relationship that you have with yourself than whether or not you are physically alone.
Indeed, yes. I think the key to solitude is that you are choosing it, or is it being forced upon you? To decide whether you need more or less of it, I think it is answering that question. Am I choosing this solitude, or is it being forced upon me? If you do have these connections, then you get to enter into them as you desire. If you lack connection, obviously, you want to make the best of your time alone. It’s like, which lever should I be pulling? Should I be leaning into the friendships, the connections, the community?
Should I perhaps take my foot off the gas as I mix my metaphors and have a little time to myself to reflect or to recover, to create? I think for most people, they need some balance. People don’t want to be surrounded by people all the time. It’s hard to be a wife and mother during lockdown, no time for yourself. It’s hard to be locked down, being forced to spend time by yourself alone as a single. How do you find the right balance for you? Whether it be 90/10, 10/90, 50/50, or somewhere along that continuum.
I agree.
Advice for New Solos: Cultivating the Relationship with Yourself
I want to close by asking you if you have a final thought and any advice, especially for the person who’s new to the movement. There are lots of people who are coming across this podcast now, coming across your work. What do you like to tell them now, reflecting on your three-plus years as an advocate for singles?
I think my primary message really is, and I mentioned this earlier, but it’s back to that relationship that you have with yourself, it has always been and always will be the most important one that you ever have. If you’ve just come to let’s say you’ve just broken up with someone and you’re newly single, obviously, this can be quite hard to hear, but I would really suggest just leaning in to what it is that you want for your life.
I think one of the things in relationships sometimes that can happen is that we, and it’s something we don’t really talk about. Often in relationships, and I know this because I’ve done it myself, we tend to forget or disregard or just let go of the things that we want to do for ourselves, passions we want to follow, dreams that we want to follow, whatever it is. I would just say that whether or not you get into a relationship down the line, you have to be able to be good by yourself.
That is a skill that we should be taught at school. Again, whether or not you end up in a long-term relationship for 70 years, every single one of us should be able to be happy, should be striving to be happy in our own skin. I would say work on the relationship that you have with yourself, listen to my podcast, and buy my book, because that will help.
Of course, I 100% agree. You’re not just telling people to do it. You did it yourself. You took the time to reflect and to consider, and you made, obviously, some very major life pivots as a result. I’m very happy for you, and I’m very happy that you’re part of the movement. Thanks again, Lucy.
Thank you. Right back at you.
Cheers.
Important Links
- Lucy Meggeson
- Lucy Meggeson on Instagram
- Thrive Solo
- Thrive Solo: Embracing the Freedom, Joy, and Opportunity of a Single, Childfree Life
- Pip Brown – Truth Or Truth With One Single Woman – Past Episode
- The Challenge of Being Single
- Shiny Happy Singles
- Single On Purpose
- Love Me
- Monique Murad
- Caleb Warren
About Lucy Meggeson
Lucy Meggeson is a former BBC Radio 2 producer turned podcast host, author, and unapologetic advocate for single, child-free living.
She’s the creator of Thrive Solo—a podcast and membership platform that celebrates autonomy, personal growth, and joy beyond coupledom.
Her debut book, Shiny Happy Singles (UK) / Thrive Solo (US), is a bold manifesto for living life on your own terms.