Sex educator and psychologist Lisa Dawn Hamilton returns to join Peter McGraw to build on Relationship Design and discuss Intimacy Design—the art of co-creating authentic, adventurous, and consent-forward sexual experiences. From sexual containers to eager consent, they explore how to make intimacy safer, hotter, and more intentional.
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Listen to Episode #253 here
Intimacy Design
Diving into Intimacy Design with Lisa Dawn Hamilton
Welcome back. After the re-release of the important and popular Relationship Design episode, I am happy to have a return guest join me to talk about intimacy design. She’s a sex researcher, sex educator, psychology professor, and host of the podcast, Do We Know Things? You may have heard her on the Non-Monogamy episode. Please welcome back Lisa Dawn Hamilton.
Thanks, Peter.
It’s great to talk to you again. I so enjoyed getting to know you and talking about non-monogamy. For the folks who haven’t read that episode, could we do a little brief recap about how you found the Solo movement?
I had been single after being in relationships for about 22 years straight. I was talking to my therapist and said, “I don’t know how to be a single person.” She did a bit of research. One of the things she came up with was the Solo podcast. She sent it to me as a recommendation. I checked it out, and I loved it. I skipped around to episodes that seemed like they fit me best. The one I really latched on to was the relationship design. In the last episode where we talked, I said that I had a partner come visit me. We drove around listening to that episode and pausing it, talking about things, and then listening some more, pausing it, and talking about things. It was a great experience.
That makes me so happy on so many levels. One, the bouncing around. The podcast is not designed to be listened to sequentially or for people to listen to every episode. Time is valuable. You should pick the ones that most resonate. The relationship design idea is one of the strongest ideas to come out of the movement. It’s obviously more broadly applicable to singles, per se. The idea of you using it in that sense with a partner, I am so delighted by that. I dedicate a chapter in my book to relationship design and then have a little bit about intimacy design. I’m eager to expand it here with you. Before we get to that, is there anything in particular you want us to accomplish for this episode, given your skills, perspective, and expertise?
Unlocking Confidence: Openly Discussing Sexual Desires
The main thing I want to accomplish is to give people the confidence or maybe even permission to talk more openly about sexual things and what they’re looking for. That’s my main goal.
Amen. I have a saying. It’s, “Ask for what you want.” It’s funny, when it comes to something like sex and pleasure, people are afraid to ask for what they want. You might not get it if you don’t ask for it. Intimacy design is a nice framework to be able to do that. Let me start with a definition of relationship design, then we’ll follow with a very similar definition of intimacy design. I want you to critique it. Pretend you’re reviewer C for a moment, that angry reviewer who gets to criticize you behind the anonymity of peer review.
Relationship design is the process by which two or more people intentionally engage in co-creating a customized relationship, in which all parties agree on the rules and regularly revisit the agreement, revising as necessary. This is a design process. People come together. They have a conversation that they revisit. They decide. What are the rules? What is the agreement? What are our expectations?
They check in on a regular basis and then tweak it and decide. Should we keep doing this? Should we keep doing it as we are? How should we change it in that way? By the way, most people never do this with their relationships. They never talk about expectations. They never talk about that. It’s not part of the script. The script is defaulting to the expectations. Any comments about the relationship design definition?
That makes sense to me. I am echoing that everyone should be doing this, regardless of the relationship and how long you’ve been together. Even if you’re in a marriage of twenty years, why not start that conversation? I know the people reading this are probably not the people who have been in a marriage for twenty years, but to emphasize, everyone should be thinking about relationship design.
Beyond Spontaneity: The Art of Intentional Sexual Connection
Relationship design, to be clear, is not necessarily about romance. It doesn’t have to be. It could be mother-daughter or father-daughter. It could be co-workers. It could be friends. While it is especially useful for romance, especially our new way of solos, it doesn’t have to be. By extension, intimacy design is an intentional act of co-creating a customized sexual experience prior to and perhaps during sex. All involved parties create mutual agreements and make it a point to regularly review and revise the agreement as necessary. Putting on your sex educator, sex researcher hat, where have I perhaps gone astray with that definition?
I don’t know if you necessarily have gone astray. It’s trickier to do about sex-related things than relationship things. It’s harder to challenge the script for relationships. It’s even harder when it comes to sex because we’re so uncomfortable with it. The one tweak I might make is that I do think it’s tricky during sex to have those conversations because it is such a vulnerable place. Most of that negotiation should happen before there’s sex. Also, during sex, there can be room for that, but it’s a little trickier.
I wanted to have it during because there are moments where you want to say, “Are you enjoying this? Would you like me to do this?” There is an improvisational element to sex that people generally like. It’s funny when I get pushback on this. I get very little pushback on relationship design. There are people whose foreheads scrunch up a little bit. They get a little like, “You’re asking me to remove the spontaneity and the excitement of sex.” I have two responses to that.
The first one is I want enthusiasm. I want to know if what I’m doing is going to be welcome. I want, “Heck yes,” not, “Maybe, I’m not sure.” In that way, talking about the stuff beforehand is freeing and keeps a partner comfortable and me comfortable. The other one is that a lot of people don’t realize what a turn-on it can be to talk about it and to know what’s coming-ish. It’s not like, “I will do X and then, after five minutes, I will do Y.” It’s not about turning this into a robotic act. There is something about knowing that this is going to happen, maybe not knowing exactly when, how, or whatnot. That’s there, but I think it is counterintuitive.
Going back to your first point about the lack of spontaneity, or people criticize that, that is part of the cultural sexual script that we are taught through all of our media. Every movie has people locking eyes across the room. They come together.
They’re tearing their clothes off. It’s so, “What are you talking about?”
There’s this narrative that we should know what the other person wants and desires, and that what one person wants and desires should be the same as what the other person wants and desires. It rarely works out well. Somebody is not getting what they want or need. In some cases, people are doing things against their will because they don’t feel safe to say, “No, this is uncomfortable,” etc.
Challenging the Script: Why Communication Enhances Sexual Pleasure
Those scenes are so cringeworthy. I’m always like, “Where are the condoms? Where is the STI conversation? Where is the birth control conversation happening?”
Pushing back against that is important to challenge this dominant cultural sexual script so that we give people permission to talk about it in other ways. One thing that sex therapists talk about a lot, and this is more for long-term sexual relationships, is scheduling sex. People push back against that as well because they think it interferes with spontaneity. Prioritizing sex and saying, “This is so important to me. I’m putting it in my schedule. I want to make sure we have this connection,” can be helpful for people who are struggling with intimacy. It pushes back, though, against this idea that sex should somehow be spontaneous.
Also, on the behavioral science side of this thing, have you ever bought tickets to a concert, and you’re so excited? You’re savoring this experience in the future. You have a reservation at your favorite restaurant. No one is ever like, “You shouldn’t make a reservation for a restaurant because it’s going to ruin the spontaneity of it.” It is being able to savor an experience, especially one as pleasurable as sex.
For people who are sexually active and enjoy sex, it is one of the most exciting things that they will do in a week. Hands down. The second thing is not even as close for the average person. Why not do the things to make it more enjoyable, more comfortable, more enthusiastic, and even something that you know you can look forward to in a world that can be uncertain and stressful? I appreciate you bringing that up.
I also often encourage people when I’m teaching about sex in my university classes to text about sex things. If they know they’re going to be meeting up with someone, and usually, it’s someone you’ve met up with before, but not always, it’s saying, “I would love for this to happen. What do you think about this?” You can build the anticipation. “I can’t wait to see you tonight. Here’s what I’m going to do to you.” Building that anticipation is exactly like you said, with the reservation and looking forward to it.
Another thing that I found to be fun, and I tell my students about, is the yes, no, maybe checklist. You can google that online, different sexual things you might be into. Doing that with a new partner, or even an ongoing partner, can get everybody very hot and bothered. If you’re talking about these sex acts and talking about, “I’d like this,” it builds that anticipation and excitement.
I appreciate you bringing that up. We’re going to actually talk about the yes, no, maybe framework, but since we’re touching on it, let’s do it here. I always say this at the beginning of my show to my guests. I said it to you. I said, “Have fun. Be authentic.” I’m going to be authentic here for a moment. I made my own yes, no, maybe. I call it a fun quiz to do with a newish partner, someone who is going to welcome it to get the ball rolling.
The “Yes, No, Maybe” Quiz: Igniting Desire and Setting Boundaries
One of the major changes that I made is that it used to be yes, no, then I added the ‘maybe’ to it. I have had partners say, “I’m so turned on right now after completing it.” I’ve had partners who reject the idea totally. I’m like, “I’m not sure I’m the right man for you.” I’m less sure in that case. It doesn’t rule them out totally because not everybody wants to respond in a text to this kind of thing, especially with someone new. It also makes me wonder a little bit about the enthusiasm and the comfort of talking about what I like, what I don’t, and what I might like, depending on the situation, partner, etc. The ‘maybe’ seems important, doesn’t it?
Yes.
Why so?
It is because there could be things that you’re genuinely not sure about. They are maybe stuff you haven’t tried before, or something you have tried and you didn’t enjoy it before, but you’re curious about it. Having that space for ‘maybe‘ is helpful so that people can continue that conversation, too. It is saying, “This was a maybe for you a couple of weeks ago. Where are you at now? Do you want to maybe give this a thought?” It is to encourage the dialogue, whereas a no is a hard limit. This is, “We’re not going to talk about this anymore.”
Yes, that’s right. I don’t ever want to be in a position where I’m convincing and cajoling a situation that is a no. To be honest, even a maybe. I’m happy to be like, “Let’s talk more about it.” I don’t want to be in a situation where I’m making arguments for something in that sense. I also think that the ‘maybe’ allows you to entertain. It does depend. It depends on the mood. It depends on the partner. It depends on the situation, comfort, etc.
Note to the members of the community, I’m not sharing the quiz. You can find these online. They exist. I would encourage you to make your own. It’s a fun thing to do. You can leave off the things that are noes for you in that way. It doesn’t make sense to ask a partner for something that you would never do. I want to ask about the definition of sex intimacy. When we talk about sex, a lot of people, from a heterosexual or homosexual standpoint, think about penetration. They think about oral sex, intercourse, and that kind of thing. The definition is much broader when it comes to intimacy design.
Broadening the Horizon: What Truly Counts as Sexual Intimacy?
Any physical or virtual, digital contact with another person that brings you pleasure can count under the umbrella of intimacy or sex. Expanding that umbrella is so important in order to fully get the sex or pleasure that works for you. I used to work around prostate cancer and intimacy. One of the things that happens to prostate cancer patients is that they have their prostate removed, and they can no longer get an erection, for example. In some cases, for people who do penetrative anal sex, they can’t have anal sex anymore. Sometimes, people get frozen because they’ve been taught that sex equals penetration or being penetrated.
One of the things that the patients would talk about is that they were afraid of their partner even kissing them or even cuddling them because they thought it would be some demand for penetration that they could no longer provide. They then just withdrew all physical affection whatsoever. If we expand this definition and think more broadly about what intimacy looks like, we can have more pleasure overall, regardless of what’s happening in your body at that given moment.
I would love a good makeout session. Talk about being intimate. That can be a very intimate thing, enjoyable, fun, and connecting. For folks who are reading this, your point about the communication, dirty talk, and sexting, I would say things that are sexually arousing, not just the loins, but the brain, being your biggest sexual organ, and things like role play. Once you start to allow yourself to let go of what the traditional, narrow definition of intimacy is, it can expand what ends up being pleasurable, what ends up being exciting, and what are the things that you’re going to savor with a partner or partners.
You uncover all new things that you had no idea were perhaps pleasurable. Maybe you did know, and you didn’t know how to ask for them. Maybe you realize, “I had no idea. I was into whatever it was.”
GGG: Good, Giving, and Game – Your Guide to Better Sex
I have a very good friend. Whenever we talk about sex and relationships, he always says, “You don’t know until you try.” He has an open mind. Does Dan Savage get credit for the GGG? I know he’s certainly a proponent of it. What is GGG for the person who has never heard it before?
It stands for good, giving, and game. He always says in parentheses, within reason. It is being good at sex, giving during sexual activity, not just receiving pleasure, but also being interested in giving pleasure, and then game, up for trying something new or trying something your partner is interested in. Again, he always says within reason. For some people, certain things are an absolute no. Looking for a partner who is GGG is one of the Dan Savage-isms.
Aspiring to be GGG is one of the greatest things. Good sex is a skill. You can read books. You can take classes. You can work on it as you would any other skill, like tennis, writing, etc. Knowing that you can get better at this thing is important. The giving is very important. There should generally be some reciprocity, right?
Yes.
You’re here to get pleasure. I’m here to get pleasure. Your pleasure is partially my responsibility and vice versa, noticing that. The game one is there are a lot of things. I’m like, “Yes, I’ll give it a whirl. It doesn’t do much for me, but I want to give pleasure. Sure, let’s give it a shot.” It does open up possibilities. It’s a very fun and exciting acronym. Who doesn’t want a partner who is GGG? If you want a partner who is GGG, you should be aspiring to get better at this activity, seeking to give. We know that people are generous in other parts of their lives, in their social connections. Why should the bedroom be any different? Also, you might be surprised. “I didn’t think I’d be that into this.” Again, within reason.
In terms of getting good, you can take classes, read books, etc., but also feel more comfortable or try to talk to your partners and ask for feedback. So many people are so terrified of giving or receiving negative feedback in the bedroom that it can leave them frozen. Whether in the moment or afterwards, what worked for you? What didn’t work for you? In the moment, though, saying, “Is this pressure okay? Do you like the stimulation? Am I hitting the right spot?” Whatever it is can be helpful in terms of learning.
Building Your Sexual Container: Safety, Trust, and Open Dialogue
As a heterosexual man, I find myself super tuned in to the noises my partner is making and how she is moving her body. The best thing is she is right there, “Yes. More. Harder. Softer,” whatever that is. It is encouraging that again in the moment and afterwards, doing this debrief, “How was that? Did you like that? Would you want to do that again?” It is those kinds of things. In the book, I talk about this idea of a sexual container. This is a common metaphor. How do you define this? How do you think about this container as a way for people to think about their intimate relationships?
Essentially, I’m thinking of it as you come together for a sexual activity. You create that container together. It’s almost like it’s creating a whole other parallel dimension. That’s often what I think about it as.
You do this largely with conversation here. The idea essentially is that intimacy design is creating this container that holds the two or more people involved in this act. The container changes over time, and perhaps often does. I’m curious what your thoughts are about this notion of safety and transparency is almost the minimum necessary element that is there around birth control, protection testing, testing contraception, sexual health, disclosing, and so on.
It is normalizing talking about those things, not just the sexual acts that you’re interested in, but talking about when was the last time you were tested? Can you send me your results? What do you use for contraception? If you’re the one buying the condoms for a partner, what condoms do you like? Are you bringing your own? It is about having those conversations and making them more normal.
It is about discussing that maybe we should wait and get tested. Maybe we do X, Y, and Z up into something that might be considered a risky behavior. I have an episode on STIs that I would encourage people to check out because we go much deeper into these conversations, a little bit of myth-busting around STIs. There’s a lot of fear around STIs. The average person doesn’t know the risks and doesn’t know the cultural wins with regard to STIs.
I don’t want to go deeply into that here, but it is a very useful one. Most of the challenges and problems around an unwanted pregnancy, or all STIs, are unwanted. Having a plan, understanding it, and recognizing the risks and contingencies can be freeing for people who are often scared and fearful around these topics. That episode does a good job of showing a balanced approach to that.
Anything that increases the dialogue about STIs and reduces that fear is so important.
Navigating Intimacy Conversations: Practical Tips for “Normie Land”
Let’s talk a little more about the blocking and tackling of an intimacy design conversation that’s there. We’ve already addressed one element, which is around sexual health. You need to tee this up. The average person has never had a thoughtful conversation. As you mentioned, ideally, this is done beforehand. When you think about this, how do you broach this topic? Let’s be honest. If you’re reading this episode as a solo and you want to do this, you’re going to be the one steering the ship.
Yes, absolutely. It’s tricky in, as one of my non-monogamous researcher friends calls it, normie land. People who are non-monogamous and kinky tend to be more used to these conversations. If you’re dating a person who is not part of either of those communities, I do think it’s tricky to bring up. I’m curious to know your experience. I’ll try to think of some examples on my end or some ways to phrase things on my end.
One thing I find is that a relationship design conversation is often a good gateway into a good intimacy design conversation. I try to do this stuff in person. Text is a terrible way to do it. A phone call is okay, if need be, but in person, out of the bedroom, on the couch, clothing on, over dinner, whatever it might be. I say, “I practice relationship design.” I go about defining what that is. That I find to be a very welcome conversation, in part because it is the thing that people deep down want. They want to feel safe to be able to ask for what they want.
In general, it’s a work in progress, but I find that to be a very helpful thing. When it comes to perhaps having sex, then I can say, “I practice intimacy design,” and then I can do that. I’ll be honest. I don’t always do that. Sometimes, I will start to behave that way. I’ll bring up sexual health. I’ll say, “I want to talk to you about when we were tested, and what protections we’re going to use.” I volunteer all my stuff that’s there. I let them return. We, as needed, talk about it and be like, “This means,” and then it’s clear in that sense.
The other thing that I find works is, “What do you like?” and “What are you in the mood for?” It is a nice way to approach this topic. With a new partner, I will often suggest, “Why don’t we keep it vanilla today and get the feel of each other, the energy, the taste, the smell, and the feel about this thing to check out our compatibility?” rather than you’re dropping all this stuff. They might be like, “Who is this guy? What is this weirdo talking about in that way?”
Again, it is outside the bedroom, very relaxed, and then spending the time listening and asking questions, asking for clarification, and asking, “How does this feel to talk about this stuff? Are you comfortable?” I always say, “Your comfort and happiness are the most important thing to me.” Regardless of what happens, that’s the most important thing.
What happens when they’re like, “This conversation is very uncomfortable?”
To be honest, I have not had that happen. People are very good at telling you what they don’t like.
They are less so at what they do like, maybe?
Sometimes, yes. You make the mental notes around what they don’t like. The quiz is helpful in advance because then you avoid all the ends. Especially with a new partner, you focus on the whys. There are some people for whom this is very difficult because they have never done it. There’s no good script for it. They may have a particular kink or fetish that they want or even need. I’m lucky in that way that lots of things work. The stakes don’t feel as high in that situation.
Overcoming Discomfort: How to Handle Challenging Intimacy Discussions
Something I’ve heard from heterosexual men, and again, these are usually younger people, students in my classes, is that when they try to have these conversations with partners, the person freaks out or freezes because they haven’t been asked this before. I do think part of it comes with age over time. I distinctly remember one student saying, “I always ask my partners.” He was older than the average student. He said, “I always ask them, ‘What are you into?’ I’ve never once received an answer.” Usually, he gets met with freaked-out stares. Having those lists or having a jumping-off point to go from can be helpful.
Also, from a heteronormative standpoint, especially, and I used to use the term normie standpoint, there’s a lot of slut shaming that happens in the world. It’s like, “What is he going to think about me if I say this?” I don’t know how to teach this. Lisa, the stuff people tell me in my day-to-day life, in the messages that I get through the Solo movement, people realize I’m not going to judge them. People are very tuned in to that. I’m incredibly flattered when someone is so vulnerable with me because it suggests that they can be like, “I can trust this person.”
I do believe in discretion. I do believe in being nonjudgmental. That somehow shows, and people pick up on it. This act of intimacy design is much easier for me in part because I’m well-practiced in it. I don’t know if it’s an aura. I don’t know if it’s an energy. I can’t tell you why. All of a sudden, in my life, people started to tell me their secrets. I’m glad they do because sometimes, you need to be able to share those things. Maybe we should workshop this a little bit because I recognize that not everybody has the experience and comfort that the two of us have.
The student is an interesting case study. What do you like? The quiz is good because it allows someone to answer in the thing, and they could put a maybe that’s a yes or a fantasy. That’s one solution. Some of it is you might have to ask specifically, “Do you want to have sex? Do you want to have intercourse today? Is it okay for me to go down on you? Would you like that?” I like that. “Would you like that?” Even start like, “I like to give a massage. Do you like receiving a massage?” Who doesn’t like receiving a massage? “Is there a part of your body that you don’t like to be touched?”
That’s an important piece for new connections and anyone. I’m thinking also about trans partners or folks like even saying, “What do you like your genitals to be called?” Even regardless of someone’s sexual or gender identity or orientation, some people might get squicked out by calling something a pussy, for example. For some people, that might be like, “That takes me out of it,” whereas other people might love it. It is those kinds of things, too.
The Power of Vulnerability: When Crossing the Line Strengthens Connection
I’m glad you brought that up because again, these scripts were built for a heterosexual world. They can be adapted. The script works for the average. Few people are average, especially if you allow yourself to be honest with yourself about what you like and what you don’t in this sense. One good one is dirty talk. Do you like dirty talk? What is the nature of it? Do you like praise? Are you into being degraded?
I had a lover who was wonderful. We had a moment where I crossed the line. I said something in the heat of the moment that was too far for her. She’s like, “Nope, too much,” which I’m glad she did. I immediately stopped. We actually stopped and debriefed there for a moment. I apologized. She recognized that my intentions were good. I was trying to please her in this way. We resumed. I made a mental note. She later said to me, “I appreciated how you dealt with that.” It brought us closer together because I didn’t get defensive, “Why? What?”
I wasn’t asking, “Why was that too much?” It wasn’t in that sense. Part of the intimacy design is revisiting. How did that go? What did you like? What did you not like? Next time, would you like to try to go a little further? Should we pull back? It is getting back to your person about, “I don’t know how to answer this or do this thing.” You never want to be pushing. It’s always like, “We can keep it very basic. How about this? How do we make out for a little while and feel each other out?” Again, my big thing is, “We don’t have to do anything you don’t want to do. Your comfort is the most important thing.”
Reiterating that point or even saying it ever at all is something that often doesn’t happen in conversations about sex or during sex. Even giving people that language is useful, and trying to normalize that in any conversation about intimacy or relationship design.
This issue is to recognize that it can actually build excitement. That’s counterintuitive. You know this is coming in some way, shape, or form. You know that you can say no at any moment. It’s going to be good that you’re going to welcome this. I use this term pre-consent as a way to think about this. You’re still consenting in the moment. There’s this notion of pre-consent getting a sense of this is on the table that’s there. This issue of knowing that there are boundaries and knowing that you are able to talk about your boundaries in advance can allow you to loosen up a little bit. Tense sex is not going to be as enjoyable as being relaxed.
I actually had an epiphany related to that when I was listening to this woman, Sabrina, who has a podcast called After Sex Ed. She was interviewing an intimacy coordinator for a film. The intimacy coordinator was saying how often the pushback she gets is, “You’re making it less spontaneous.” Again, these are actors having sex. Her argument for the importance of using an intimacy coordinator on set is that if people know what’s happening, then they can fully relax, be in the scene, and do their acting if they know what to expect.
If they’re on edge and like, “Is he going to touch me somewhere weird that I wasn’t expecting?” that extends into non-acting interactions. If you can create a space where someone feels safe and their boundaries are going to be respected, they can relax into that. While you were talking, I was thinking that something you could do is offer an example of your own boundary to let someone know that you would like them to share their boundaries. If you can say, “These are some things I’m interested in, but a limit for me is this. This is something I’m not interested in,” it is letting them know “I’m just setting a boundary. You can do this, too.”
Safe Words and Aftercare: Essential Tools for Conscious Intimacy
What about sometimes, people will use a safe word? They’ll introduce a safe word into this. The typical safe word is no, stop, or something like that. Why a safe word and why talking about perhaps having that, especially if you’re going a little outside the convention?
A common way of doing it, using safe words, is the stoplight system. Green means everything is great. Yellow means maybe pause and check in. Red means stop everything immediately, which sounds like what happened in that situation where you went too far with that person, and she said no. I do think young people actually are incorporating things like safe words. Another thing that the students in my classes talk about is aftercare. After sex, what do you like? I have heard of them having these conversations before they have sex. What do you like after sex? Do you like to be left alone? Do you like to cuddle? Sorry, that’s an aside.
I do think the kink language is being brought more into common interactions or even non-kinky interactions. Having a conversation about safe words in advance is useful because it sets the situation that you want them to be able to stop it if they want. By not saying anything, it leaves it open-ended. Often of women in heterosexual interactions, you never know if your stop or your no is going to be respected. If you have that conversation in advance, they can feel safer. They can relax more in the situation. Even practicing checking in, “Where are you at?” They can say, “Green,” and know that they could say, “Yellow,” if it’s a bit too intense, or say, “Red. This needs to stop right away.”
That’s a good thing. The other one is, I’m glad you brought up the aftercare, because that’s as important. What are the expectations that when we finish, what does that look like in terms of hanging out, talking, cuddling, cleaning up, etc.? I’ve noticed that it has become a little bit of a thing, which is very good. You’ve had this intimate experience, maybe with someone you don’t know that well.
You’ve had this tremendously intimate experience with a new partner you’ve only been out with once, twice, or three times. What have we missed here? We’re talking about creating this container, doing it through conversation, through disclosure, through asking questions, and through vulnerability, addressing the yeses, noes, and maybes, and noting that you might have to start small with someone. You might have to actually model the behavior with someone new because this is unusual. I would say this. I’m not eager to rush into bed with someone who is not eager to talk about what we’re going to do in bed.
Note that you might have to set your desires aside. You’re sexually motivated. You’re horny. You’re excited about this person. You want to jump into bed with them like in the movies, rip their clothes off, and whatnot. Note that they may not be comfortable enough to talk about these things. You might have to be like, “Maybe we should slow down a little bit.” The sexual health stuff is paramount. I want to add one more. We’ve touched on it briefly here. There’s this phrase I came across. It’s from your world called yucking someone’s yum. It’s about not being judgmental about someone’s desires, kinks, or fetishes that are there.
In the same way that you want to be able to ask for what you want, recognizing you might get a no, you might get a maybe, or you might get a yes, you want your partner to be able to ask for what they want. Someone may ask you for something that you think is not okay, not okay with you, not okay in some way, or whatever. It’s very important to be like, “Thank you for asking. Thank you for sharing that. That’s not something that I’m particularly into, but I appreciate the request.” It is flattering that someone can be vulnerable enough, comfortable enough, and honest with you about what they want, and then not feel like you’re going to be like, “Ew, gross, ick,” that feeling.
I do think the yuck is what blocks people from sharing or feeling comfortable. It is the fear of that, that someone’s going to be like, “What is wrong with you? That’s disgusting.” As you said, if we don’t yuck each other’s yums, we can create a space where more people are comfortable sharing their yums. I say this should extend to all aspects of our lives. There are things that we’re going to dislike that other people say.
If someone is being racist or something, you’re allowed to yuck that yum. In general, in life, when someone is excited about something, it is not being like, “That’s stupid,” and then extending that to sex. If someone’s like, “I’m into this,” exactly what you said, it is saying, “Thanks for sharing. That’s not something that I’m into, but what else are you into?” It is letting it go and rolling it off into the next point of conversation.
Keeping It Spicy: Intimacy Design in Established Relationships
If you think about this, when it comes to intimacy, there’s a big menu. Just because you don’t want this appetizer or this entree doesn’t mean that you can’t eat at this restaurant. That’s a good one. There is the next level. We’ve been very focused on the person who is a novice, who is like, “I want to try this.” Even being like, “What do you like? What are you in the mood for?” while you’re on the couch or at dinner already puts you in the top 1% of people in terms of your ability to communicate this stuff.
What about the established relationship? One of the things that for as wonderful as sex can be, is that it can lose its novelty. It can start to be a little bit routinized. Yes, it’s still pleasurable, but how do you keep it spicy? Intimacy design is also a framework by which to do that. What are your thoughts about using this to be like, “I want to experiment with something. I want to try this?” One of the things that I often will encourage people to do is say, “I’m so attracted to you. I love having sex with you. I’m so glad that you feel comfortable with me.” It is setting up how satisfied you are and how happy you are with this person as a lead into an ask for what you want moment.
That’s very reasonable. If you’re someone who has been with someone for a long time and it has gotten a little stagnant, maybe even start with talking about relationship design, even in a longer-term thing that you’ve been in for a while, and then lead into intimacy design. The whole point of it is that you keep revisiting things. If you’re not in the habit of already doing that, and if it comes out of left field, people can feel attacked. Even saying, “I’m attracted to you,” if it comes out of nowhere, and you’ve never had a conversation like this before, it can feel threatening or upsetting to people.
One of the things I often suggest to people is saying, “I heard this thing on a podcast. I’ve been thinking a lot about this,” even as a way of introducing and starting to talk more about intimacy design. It is saying, “I happen to be listening to this podcast. What do you think about talking more about what we do sexually?” It is setting it up like that instead of going into a specific request.
That’s great. I like that. I will encourage people to share the chapter in the book, share the relationship design episode, or share this episode now in advance. The person gets educated and learns about what’s coming. Who doesn’t like a partner investing in their relationship? I have found that honesty reigns. It doesn’t always lead to what you want it to lead to, but it leads to the trust that you can build a strong foundation on.
I certainly have had partners say, “I know that I can trust you,” because of my willingness to be honest about having other partners, for example, and answering that in a forthright fashion, and frankly, in an unapologetic fashion also. Monogamy being such a dominant rule can lead people to be like, “I don’t know if I want to disclose another partner at this time in this way,” which I think is a good segue. It fits our previous conversation on non-monogamy. You’re involved in a monogamous relationship, and you’re interested in exploring non-monogamy, for example. That’s one of those potentially threatening conversations. That’s a scary one for a lot of people.
Exploring Non-Monogamy: Honest Conversations and Resources
As someone who had to do this, it’s very challenging. One resource I recommend is the book Opening Up by Tristan Taormino, which is specifically focused on people who are monogamous and are interested in opening up their relationships. There are lots of great resources for non-monogamous people, but that’s one that’s specifically focused on a monogamous couple wanting to open up. In terms of this conversation, so we could offer some insight, it’s going to be challenging.
It’s going to be a challenging conversation, no matter what. There is so much about non-monogamy in popular culture now. There are always articles about it, new books, and stuff. Maybe it is even saying, “I keep seeing stuff about consensual non-monogamy. What are your thoughts on that?” It is not pitching it like, “I want this,” but being like, “This keeps popping up. What are your thoughts?”
First of all, if you’re non-monogamous, you ought to be telling people that right away. I don’t feel like you have to put it in your dating profile. I say this from a principled standpoint. Monogamous people don’t feel compelled to put it in their profile. I don’t necessarily think you have to do it, but it should be disclosed early, and the form of non-monogamy that you practice, romantic and sexual. You also have to get very honest with yourself about, “Is this a yes or a maybe if you’re going to bring it up?”
If you want to be non-monogamous, then you have to be honest with yourself, or if your partner says, “No, thanks,” and you’re going to be very comfortable continuing in this way. That might actually affect how you bring it up in a sense. I recognize some of these cultural winds still blow strongly. The average person is a normie, hence the term in their own way. Relationship design works for normies.
It doesn’t work for everyone.
In some ways, it is probably even more important because that’s where the script is so strong in a sense.
It is challenging the script for normies.
It’s good. Experiment with this. You don’t have to just roll it out, Peter McGraw style, in a sense. Even starting with an open, honest conversation around sexual health is already modeling that behavior that’s there. It is asking, “What are you in the mood for today? What do you like?” If they say, “I don’t know,” you say, “Do you like everything?” They’d be like, “No, I don’t like everything.”
Small Steps, Big Impact: Starting Your Intimacy Design Journey Today
Sex and intimacy ought to be fun. It ought to be pleasurable. It ought to be playful. It ought to be exciting. It ought to be something that is a highlight of your day or week, a way to build a strong bond with someone. That’s why I wanted to get you back on the show to have this conversation. What would be a small step, do you think, a reader could take to begin practicing intimacy design?
Just even with a new partner or an established partner, it is saying, “What do you feel like tonight? What are you into right now?” If it’s someone you’ve been with before, it is saying, “What did you like about last time we hooked up?” or whatever it was. It is asking one little question to practice having a conversation.
A good follow-up is, “I really liked,” just getting into the thing. “What did you like most the last time we were together?” “I really liked that thing.” You’re having a little bit of a dialogue, a little back and forth that’s there.
A lot of anxiety people have about having this conversation is the other person reacting badly or rejecting them because they’re trying to have this conversation. Back to Dan Savage, one of the things he says is, “If you tell someone something or ask someone something, their reaction tells you everything you need to know about them.” You tell them one thing about you. Their reaction tells you everything you need to know. If someone is going to react badly or be deeply uncomfortable, then that’s good to know. We want to know that information so that we can make informed choices. Perhaps that is not someone you want to engage with intimately or continue to engage with if you can’t have these conversations.
I’m glad you brought that up. I want to end on this thought. Having an abundant mindset when it comes to intimacy will facilitate this. It’s very easy to have a scarcity mindset. It’s hard for a lot of people to find a partner. It’s hard to find a match. It’s hard to find someone whom you’re attracted to and who’s attracted to you. You find someone, and there’s a bit of chemistry. You’re like, “How do I not screw this up?”
That’s a very much of a scarcity mindset. Having an abundant mindset of, “This ought to be good. This is something that I want someone enthusiastic there,” can allow a bit of comfort and knowing I might have to let this promising situation go because, as I like to say, I’m not the right man for you in that way. I recognize that’s hard, especially as a young man. You feel like, “No one wants to have sex with me.”
You get very afraid to ask for what you want. You get afraid to suggest things that a partner might like because you’re afraid that that partner might yuck your yum. How do you approach this world with an abundant mindset? It ends up being an aura. I’m getting a little woo woo, but I don’t know. There’s something that people can sense, like the confidence, the authenticity, and the comfort that comes from that mindset. Any closing thoughts?
This is hard to do. We are taught from basically the minute we’re born not to talk about these things. Unlearning that is challenging.
The Power of Trust: Building Confidantes for Intimacy Discussion
You’re not supposed to talk about sex, politics, and money. Those are the three things you’re not supposed to talk about with anyone. I’m going to add one other thing. It’s this. Talk to your friends. Talk to the people who won’t yuck your yum. I have Julie. I can tell Julie anything. We had the 250th episode. She knows everything about me. She’s not going to judge me. We don’t name names and things like that. I believe in discretion, but what are your experiences like? That’s one of those places where you can start to exercise these muscles with your comrades, with your confidants, about this stuff.
I’ll add that to the small thing. What are the conversations you’re having with the people that you trust with your life? If you don’t have people you can trust with your life, maybe before you’re working on intimacy design, you’ve got to work on relationship design with some friends and family. Lisa Dawn Hamilton, you’re great. I’m so glad that you joined the movement and have joined the Solo shows, not once, but twice now as a guest. I look forward to having you back.
Thank you so much for having me. I’m so glad to have found the movement. I still very strongly identify as a solo. It brings me great joy.
Cheers.
Important Links
- Lisa Dawn Hamilton on Instagram
- Relationship Design
- Do We Know Things? Podcast
- Non-Monogamy With Lisa Dawn Hamilton
- Rewards And Risks Of Sex: STIs
- After Sex Ed
- Opening Up
About Lisa Dawn Hamilton
Lisa Dawn Hamilton is a sex researcher, sex educator, psychology professor, host of the podcast Do We Know Things, and most importantly a Solo listener.