Everyone talks about romantic breakups—but what about breaking up with a friend? In this episode, Peter McGraw is joined in the Solo Studio by two community favorites: the perceptive and passionate Janice Formichella and the Solo OG Julie Nirvelli. Together, they dive into the often-overlooked world of friend breakups—why they happen, how to navigate them, and what makes a good friend in the first place. Expect real talk, a few laughs, and maybe even a Taylor Swift reference…
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Listen to Episode #240 here
Friend Breakups
Welcome back. I am joined in the Solo Studio by two members of the Solo community and frequent co-hosts or guests on the show. Welcome back, Janice Formichella.
Thank you. It’s always a pleasure.
Welcome back, Julie Nirvelli.
Thank you.
We’re going to talk about friend breakups, but first, an announcement. I’m offering two eBooks. I’m dipping my toe into creating books directly for the Solo community. The first one is a workbook, Learning to Break the Rules in a World Built for Two, for which Janice kindly gave me feedback and advice.
Gladly.
It was very nice. That is available both as a printable and a fillable one. If you want to work by hand like I do with a pen and paper, or you want to type it on your computer, you can do both. For the second one, I’ve been working hard on it. This one is about personal finance. It’s The Single Person’s Guide to Financial Freedom: 100 Lessons to Build Wealth and Thrive Solo. I should have done 50 lessons.
You can’t change it? Maybe it’ll be 50.
It’s been pre-purchased. People are ordering.
All the proceeds support the Solo project, especially the cost associated with this show. You can get the books, sign up for the Solo newsletter, or join the community at PeterMcGraw.org/Solo.
I’m excited to see the books. It’s a cool idea.
Congrats.
Are you ready to get started?
Yeah.
As I like to say, let’s get started. We’re talking about friend breakups. I have a feeling this one’s going to be both informative, useful, and perhaps even a little spicy at times.
Sassy is what I’m thinking.
Friend Breakups And Personal Stories
I asked each of us to prepare a personal story to kick things off to give people a range of what might go into a friend breakup rather than jumping into the abstract theoretical side.
You should go first.
Thank you. This is a good story because it has all of the pieces of a friend breakup done intentionally. Also, it was quite troubling to me as well. First of all, I had a history with this person. This person was not a good friend to me. I struggled over what to do, and then I approached him about it. As far as having a history with this person, we grew up together.
You have a long history.
A very long history. His mom had been my mom’s midwife. I had gone to prom with him.
It wasn’t completely platonic?
We were raised in the Mormon church. We went to prom together, but it was as friends. However, it was very much assumed that we would get married after his mission. Mormon boys go on missions for two years. It was understood. That didn’t end up happening, which I’m glad for because we lost track after I got married, and he did as well. He got back in touch with me when he left the church. I have mixed feelings about when people have done that to me. Shortly after that, he came out of the closet.
You would’ve had a divorce, is what you’re saying.
I was very thankful that we had not pursued a relationship. He left the church and got in touch with me for advice. I decided to help him out. We stayed in touch. I helped him come out to his family. He lived in Fort Collins. When I moved from Australia to Denver, we were excited about hanging out. He was the only person I knew. He came to Denver all of the time. The first time we were supposed to hang out was on my birthday, which he canceled on. I was very disappointed. I was like, “That’s a shitty way to start out my living here.” For the next year, I had counted that he had made plans and canceled on me over a dozen times.
That’s unacceptable.
It was fourteen that I had ended up counting. It was distressing to me. He also stood me up once. At one point, he was at a bar near my house and said, “I had a horrible date. Do you want to meet me for a drink?” I’m like, “Hell yeah.” Nobody ever invited me out.
You’re into this type of dishing, too.
Back and forth constantly. I start walking to the bar and he texts me saying, “I’ve had too bad of a night. I’m already on my way home.”
Can I ask a question?
Yes.
First of all, it’s not okay to cancel plans that often. He’s also doing this at the last minute. Julie and I talk about this a lot. How you cancel plans matters a lot. A lot. You tell people early. You tell them why.
You reschedule.
When someone doesn’t do any of those things or some of those things, it becomes more of a problem.
Also, when you’re doing it constantly. I would come to expect that it probably wasn’t going to happen, but still, it was important to me. I didn’t have any friends. I moved here. We lost track during the pandemic, which I was grateful for. We’re going to talk about the fade out with friends where you don’t have a confrontation. It fizzles. I was happy about that.
I’m like, “How did that get started?”
Two years go by and he contacts me out of the blue on my phone and on every social media platform. He’s moving to Denver. He wants me to introduce him to people and wants to get together. I had a sinking feeling in my stomach. I did not want him in my friend circle. I knew that was what was going to happen. He wanted to come to my ex-Mormon events. I felt such a strong no about this, so I started going online and searched how to break up with a friend. I asked all my friends. I’m asking my hairdresser.
Characteristics Of A Good Friend
What we’ll talk about is when I’m in a romantic relationship, if something comes up, we’re talking about it. If it’s with a friend, I find it so much harder. A lot of my friends were like, “Tell him.” Online, it’s like, “You might want to try the fizzle.” For the first six months, I didn’t answer him and was praying that he would stop. He did not. Every couple of months, he was like, “Where are you? Why aren’t you answering me? I want to get together.” I feel guilty about this. It probably went on for a year. He saw me in my neighborhood and was like, “Are you at Ritual Public House right now?” which freaked me out.
If somebody’s not responding, that means something.
It was ten messages. I’m not proud of this, but I kept on hoping that he would get the hint, so to speak. When he saw me out in my neighborhood, I was like, “It’s time to suck it up. You got to tell him,” which I did. I said, “You probably did see me there. I go there all the time. I’m sorry that I wasn’t more direct with you when you moved here, but I do not want to pursue a friendship with you.
I said, “When I first moved here, it was challenging for me that you canceled on me all the time.” He also hadn’t been there for me when I had asked for support with something with my family. I said, “I don’t think that that is what a friendship should be like. I wish you the best.” I left it short and sweet, but I told him. It was hard. That’s a friend breakup.
He either didn’t respond or he blew you up, I’m guessing.
He had then started hitting me up on Instagram quite a bit. When I told him I didn’t want to pursue things, I did block him.
You don’t know what his response was?
No, it was so hard for me to get to the point of telling him. I didn’t want to have a back and forth. It took enough out of me to be that direct that I decided I wanted to tie a bow around it.
I bet he would’ve blown you up. That’s a smart decision.
Congratulations.
Thank you.
It’s very difficult. I’m anxious hearing that story.
Thank you. It was challenging for me.
Before we get to Julie’s, I have to ask something that you mentioned at the outset, which is, “When it comes to romantic stuff, my feeling is that this doesn’t cause the same degree of anxiety and worry.”
People find this peculiar about me, but I am very good at communication with my romantic partners. I’m a dating coach. I will not let anything fester. I will address it ASAP. If you don’t bring something up right away and throw it in someone’s face a month later, you don’t have the right to do that. You need to address things.
I do have a few friends that I’m letting get away with stuff, and I am building up resentment. The timing of this is so perfect for me because the resentments are piling on and I know I need to address them.
What is your story?
My story goes back a ways. I had a friend, and she and I connected on so many levels. We are entrepreneurs and single moms. We both had supportive relationships from our fathers financially and as mentors for our businesses. We mountain biked 3 or 4 times a week together. We were both single, so we went out. We have so much in common.
That’s intimate.
We had some sort of check-in every single day. She ended up in the friend community. Over time, a couple of my friends said, “If she’s going to be there, I don’t want to hang out anymore.” I started noticing she has a very strong personality. It was her way or the highway. She was not open to other people’s thoughts or ideas. She would tell people that her beliefs were the way things were.
The first time her behavior impacted me directly was when she disagreed with a parental decision I had made, blew me up via text, and said, “I can’t be friends with somebody who does this.” It was a vaccination decision. I was like, “What? This is a different belief.” I probably should have let her break up with me then instead of saying, “Fine.” It was pretty shocking to get a text from her saying that.
A couple of other things happened where she was taking her daughter mountain biking, but her daughter had outgrown her own bike, so I offered to lend her daughter my old bike. I loaded it in my car and took it to her house, and then she looked at it and was like, “This is not going to work.”
Your friend?
The friend said, “This isn’t going to work.” I said, “She’s an inch taller than me. It should be fine.” I kept noticing more of these aggressive behaviors. The straw that broke the camel’s back is that we had loosely talked about a business idea, and she started to run with the idea, which I was fine with, even though we both came up with this idea.
Separately, a different friend and I came up with an adjacent idea. It wasn’t even the same. When she found out about it, she accused me of stealing her idea and that she couldn’t be friends with somebody so untrustworthy. I think she was probably projecting because the idea she started running with, we came up with together at the same time, and she never said, “What do you think if I run with this idea?” She blew up at me and said I was stealing her idea even though it was different.
I did decide to have a breakup conversation with her. I was shaking and my hands were sweating. I was like, “I’m going to die.” We did it on the phone. I had notes that I could follow. I said I didn’t think our friendship was in alignment anymore, and I felt accused of things that I hadn’t done. She tried to patch it up and I said no. At that point, I would’ve been like, “If I run into her in public, no big deal,” but another thing happened that when I see her in public, I avoid her and I don’t acknowledge her presence. We live ten blocks away from each other in a small town, so it’s easy to run into each other.
I had dated this guy, and he passed away. Her brother-in-law knew him. The guy who passed away was an alcoholic, so we had lots of issues. I messaged her after the friend breakup and said his sister was trying to get ahold of his high school friends and whether she could pass the message on to her brother-in-law. She said, “He was a piece of shit. My brother-in-law would not want to hear about this.” I was like, “You are an ugly human.” I loved the guy. He didn’t pass away while we were dating, but he was somebody who was very meaningful in my life. When she said that, I was like, “You are showing your true colors. It is so ugly.”
How long have you been friends?
Years. Four, maybe. It was a long time.
I know this story, and I know this pattern that Julie’s been working on. She’s often very accommodating and easy to get along with, whether it be romantic or friendly. It’s why we’re such good friends. She’s like, “He’s just being Peter.” She’s very hard to offend. For something to reach this level, whether it be romantic or platonic, to sit and have a conversation like this, first of all, it has to be bad. The other one, though, is a testament to the work that you’ve been doing, Julie, in terms of surrounding yourself with people who are more supportive, more positive, of high integrity, and so on.
Thank you.
For both of you, each of those stories is unfortunate, but also better than the alternative, which is that you have this person in your life who’s causing you negative emotions and creating instability. My story is one that I am embarrassed by as someone who prides himself on doing friendships very well.
You do.
Thank you. They’re incredibly important to me. They’ve always been more important to me than my romantic relationships. Even though my romantic relationships have caused me more heartbreak, certainly, the foundation of my life is my friendships. I had a tumultuous family growing up. My mother, mostly, and father. I learned very quickly that I needed friends to make it in this world. Thankfully, I have incredible friends.
We’re at twenty years, but you have so many friends who have known you much longer.
I invest a lot in those relationships. I’m not going to have a tombstone, but if I had a tombstone, I want it to say, “Peter was a good friend, brother, and lover.” Friends first on that list. I had a friend. We’ll call him Francis. I’ve known Francis for fifteen years or something like that. I had a bromance with him. As a man, it’s exciting to meet another guy that you connect with, that you have a similar lifestyle, values, and beliefs, that you can click with, and that you can be like your full self or your authentic self. I like to say that you have a public life, a private life, and a secret life. Few people make it into the secret life conversation. Julie knows my secret life. She could ruin me.
I know what you mean.
I became friends with this guy. I don’t have to get into the full details of all of this, but at one point, he was living far away from me and he called me and asked me to lend him some money. To be honest, for most of my life, I wasn’t the guy that you’d come to to borrow money. If anything, I was the guy who needed to borrow money. Fortunately, in my life, as scarce as money was, that didn’t happen very much. I had one friend in my freshman year of college who lent me $500, and it kept me from having to drop out of college.
You could relate to that need.
I can relate to that need.
You and he at that point had been friends for?
This is pre-pandemic, so at least ten years.
It was a long time.
I talked to a friend with whom I’m closer and knew both of us. I asked, “Do you think I should do this?” because I was hesitant. He said, “I don’t lend friends money.” He has a brother who’s like a financial advisor and knows all the stories, etc. I see the wisdom in that. In hindsight, I wish I hadn’t lent the money.
I take responsibility for this because I gave this person the opportunity to fail. If I had said no, I never would’ve put our friendship at risk, but I said yes. I’ll tell you the amount of money. This was $5,000. I said, “I’d like you to pay me back within a year. I feel like that’s a reasonable amount of time. No interest.” I made the transfer, and then a year comes and goes, but there was never a payment, not even $100 or anything like that.
No word?
He had communicated that it had weighed on him. It’s not like he disappeared. We had continued our friendship. We were long-distance. After that year, he came back to me again and asked for more money.
There you go.
I said, “I can’t do that, but I can give you more time if you need it.” More time went by again. When you’re trying to interpret someone else’s behavior, it’s a tendency to think, “What would I do in that situation?” Julie will agree with me on this. I would kill myself to pay that money back. I would get an extra job. It would weigh on me. I’d pay the $500 back to that friend as soon as possible.
It’s hard when you’re over your head.
I get it. I understand.
He could’ve communicated that.
The closest I’ve ever been in that situation was as a nineteen-year-old, where I was on the precipice of having to leave college. Honestly, that $500 changed the course of my life. Maybe I would’ve limped along. Maybe I would’ve eventually gotten my degree. I probably would’ve joined the Military. The life I live was make or break on that sum of money, so I can appreciate that. I don’t know his full financial situation, but I can’t appreciate the fact that you’re so far behind that you’re not even keeping your head above water.
I eventually had a conversation with him where I told him how I was feeling about it. I asked him to pay the money back. That’s all you could do. I have no collateral. There’s no, “Or else.” I said, “I would like you to do this,” and it hasn’t happened. I’m not embarrassed about having lent the money. It was a useful learning experience about putting a relationship in a situation where it might fail. I’m embarrassed because I have not done the breakup. I’ve avoided that connection. The last communication we had was that we were in the same place and we were going to see each other. I couldn’t bring myself to do it, so I canceled the meeting.
You didn’t reschedule?
I did not reschedule.
You haven’t heard from him since?
I’ve received maybe a message via social media about something else, but not directly.
That’s been a year-ish? I remember this happening.
Yeah, it’s been about a year. I’m embarrassed because I’ve been too chicken shit.
It’s tough. Look at me. It took me a year and a half of this guy messaging me before I had the courage to do it.
He knows.
There’s a chance he’ll read this also. It’s heartbreaking because I have love in my heart for this person. I want him to succeed. I want him to get out of the rut that he is in. He’s been incredibly important to me as a friend and as a confidant.
What do you want to happen?
I don’t know.
I get that as well.
I like to believe I’m a bigger person and good at these kinds of things. I’m not at my best.
I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong, though.
It feels wrong, but thank you.
That’s fair. Maybe after this episode, you’ll know how you want to move forward.
Once we get to the three Cs of. Based upon the tenor of our stories, it’s probably pretty obvious to all of us and to most people in the Solo community that friendships are important, especially when you don’t have that relationship escalator. For example, we were talking about this on the website. A member of the community said, “As an only child Solo, friendships are my everything. I once developed a semester-long high school English course with friendship at the center.” This is something people give a lot of thought to.
I like that.
Hulie helped me spearhead a series from back in the day about what makes a remarkable friend. We dove deeply into that out in the Joshua Tree Desert. We were talking about these things. If you ask people, “What do you want in a romantic partner?” They can list those things. They know what the green flags are. They know what the red flags are. When it comes to friendships, it’s more like, “I know it when I see it. I know it when I feel it,” kind of thing.”
I love my rubrics. I love my taxonomies. What are the characteristics of a good friend? This is for me. I offer it to you and the community to do with it what you want. What’s useful is when you have to decide whether you’re going to break up with someone, where are they failing? Where is the relationship failing along the dimensions?
Here they are. The first one is, this person provides value in your life and vice versa. That’s pretty broad. They could be funny. They could be a good confidant. They’re a good gym buddy. There are lots of ways that people provide value. It’s on balance, more value than not. It doesn’t mean they have to be perfect. Sometimes, they can be annoyed.
There’s a reason.
That’s right. As someone who’s imperfect, it’s nice to know you don’t have to be always, but in general, you’re providing value. For example, I like to do things for my friends. I try to be a generous person. The money thing was a new thing, but helping out with stuff, I’m always happy to help out with stuff.
When Peter plans a social gathering, he’ll say, “Value-added people, welcome.”
I’ve been to Peter’s social gatherings. It’s an honor.
The second is that they’re of high integrity. They’re reliable. They do what they say they’re going to do. In my personal story, Francis is of high value. He’s always been high value, but he did not keep his word. That’s where he failed on this integrity element.
The one I mentioned earlier that was piling up on me, integrity is where she’s falling down. This is helpful, so continue. Thanks.
In your case, Janice, when someone cancels on you at the last minute constantly, they’re not reliable. That’s a low integrity behavior. They don’t follow through on their word. They make plans and you’re adjusting your life. The last one, and I think this one happens a lot more than people might realize, is that a good friend or remarkable friend practices compersion. They’re anti-jealous. They’re inherently cooperative and not competitive. There’s this line between friend and frenemy. A frenemy can be high value and high integrity, but they’re competitive.
I have not had this situation very often. I hear about jealous friends all the time, but I haven’t experienced that.
Someone stole someone’s boyfriend or girlfriend, or they’re undermining you. You get the sense that they’re not sad when something bad happens to you.
It’s a bummer.
With the breakup story I told, that made me remember something. When we were having the breakup conversation, she started saying, “You’re always competing with me. I got a new mountain bike, and then you got a new mountain bike.” I’m like, “I didn’t drop $6,000 on a mountain bike to be better than you. That is ridiculous.” She also brought up, “I got a new car, and then you got a new car.” I was like, “My lease was up. What are you talking about?” She had this competitive underlying thing going on.
A member of the Solo community said, “I also had a penchant for trying to befriend people who were pretty ambivalent about me.” That could be a little bit of that maybe competitiveness. We can look through that lens. It also might suggest, too, to preview this, that you don’t always have to break up. You can try to repair it. You can try to address these things. If you know what specifically is that situation, you might be able to reconcile it.
Fizzling Vs. Finalizing Friendships
When these two different types of breakups have come up in the Solo community, we’ve addressed them. You used one of the words, Janice. You said fizzling. Fizzling versus finalizing. You finalized, and I fizzled. You two are better than me.
There are pros and cons to each.
That’s fair.
Having the confrontation and telling the person is so scary and overwhelming. When it’s not working and it naturally fizzles, you do not have to have the conversation. You drift away from each other’s lives. That happens.
Having the final conversation is a growth for boundary setting, too. My boundaries are a little squishy sometimes.
That was a good exercise for you.
I had another situation where this girl was so nasty and rude to me all the time. The fact that it fizzled, I’m glad for that.
I also had drifting versus ditching. I was trying to come up with the right language. The idea is either it’s an active breakup and you say something, or it’s a passive breakup and you let it fade.
When I was going online and doing all this research about how to break up with this guy, I have to say a lot of “experts” said, “Sometimes, there’s a fade out. Sometimes, it fizzles, and maybe you should let that happen.” Experts were saying this online as a viable option.
Amy Gahran, who’s a frequent guest here, helped me out when we were having a conversation on the show. She was a reader and then sent me a note about ghosting. My feeling was, in general, ghosting is bad, you shouldn’t do it, etc., but she made some good points. Ghosting is in between the fade and the active. A member of the Solo community wrote, “In my opinion, friendships fade away once the impetus that brought you together is removed unless there was a specific cause, i.e., betrayal.”
Someone else wrote, “My experience has been similar to this reader regarding friendships fading when the impetus is removed. For example, school, job, neighborhood. With my long-lasting friendships, I’ve noticed an ebb and flow of contact and connection over the years as our priorities and needs fluctuate.”
Things change.
I have a little bit of a different take on this that’s not so black and white. This is the activity I mentioned earlier. As someone who supports entrepreneurs, I came up with this as a business idea, and then I realized, “I could apply this to friendships.” It’s called the inner circle, middle circle, and outer circle. In business, you’re deciding who you want to align yourself with most in your inner circle, who would be in your middle circle, and who would be in your outer circle.
When I started thinking I could apply this to friendships, I started examining who was in my inner circle and then looking at the give and take. Sometimes, you’re happy to give more, but it’s feeling out of balance. I moved a couple of people from the inner circle to the middle circle without having a conversation with them. I see this person less frequently. I’ll say, “I’m going to be here if you’re around,” but not doing the one-on-one time like I was and not communicating as frequently.
You weren’t creating space organically.
What you’re recognizing, Julie, is that it may not be the case that’s deserving of a breakup. The person hasn’t done anything wrong per se, but they’re not the right fit in your life.
You’re not feeling it.
Differences Between Romantic And Friendship Breakups
I certainly have had that. I have friends who go all the way back to college. We’re different people than we were back then, so we have less in common. I want to turn to you for a moment, Janice, as someone who thinks a lot about romantic breakups. How are romantic and friendship breakups different, at least in your experience or your opinion?
In a serious romantic relationship, there are a lot more agreements and commitments that you make to the other person.
It’s more explicit. You don’t say, “Julie, we are now friends. Do you agree? Are we friends?” You also don’t have exclusive friends either, so there’s monogamy.
You have more obligations to a romantic partner.
There’s often a greater hierarchy built into culture.
There’s more to lose at stake. You are planning a future with this person. You sit down and agree on what that future is going to look like. How many of us do that with our friends? I know you’ve talked about platonic partners on your show before. In that case, maybe, but how many people have that situation?
It’s very rare.
It needs to be clear. You are taking those agreements, those assumptions, and that obligation away. You need to have a conversation and be clear about that.
When it comes to romantic relationships, people start to have expectations of those types of partnerships without necessarily relaying the agreements. Agreement is a much better way to go, but people have expectations. With friends, you have fewer expectations a lot of times, so you let them get away with it more.
Sometimes, when I’m dating and I start to get a little miffed, I’m like, “We’re not in a committed relationship. If this person were my friend, how would I be reacting to this situation right now?” It helps me put myself in check where it’s like, “I’m making assumptions because we’re romantic and expectations that are not fair.” It’s a great way for me to check that.
I’d add one thing to the difference between the two. Romantic breakups, usually the ghosting aside, require someone to say, “I don’t want to see you anymore.”
It’s hard to fade out.
It’s hard to fade a romantic relationship.
A lot of the time, you would probably spend more time with a romantic partner. Therefore, by nature, it would be hard to fade out.
That’s right. That’s one of the interesting things about it. Romantic breakups usually require a conversation, a statement, or something like that where it’s less necessary given the ebb and flow of friendships more generally.
To get into it, there’s a conversation as well.
There’s also this cultural blind spot about this. It’s not something we talk about. There are no love songs. There are no songs about friend breakups. There are fewer self-help books and so on. Taylor Swift isn’t saying, “We’re never going to get brunch again. My heart is broken that I won’t have my brunch friend anymore.” That does a disservice.
I’ve had a lot of heartbreak with regard to romantic relationships, but the story that I told at the outset has weighed on me. It has taken up a lot of space. Right. I’m at the stage in life where there are friendships that if they ended would be worse than any romantic breakup I’ve ever had, even probably with regard to my emotions, but in terms of my quality of life. It’s leaving a hole in that way. We need to acknowledge the gravity of this.
Not everybody might feel that way, though. As somebody who works with people going through romantic breakups, it can be shattering, life-altering, and depression-inducing. I understand that’s in your case, but I see people who are having a hard time functioning day-to-day for months.
That has to be where my values are. Culturally, we put so much pressure on them. The rules are much stricter. It feels like a failure when you’re unable to do it, especially if it comes in the form of a divorce.
You’re having your future reality that you expect completely stripped from you, which you might not do with a friend.
Reasons For Breaking Up With A Friend
What are some other reasons you should be breaking up with a friend?
If it’s not reciprocal, as in my case. I had helped this man come out to his family, and he told me he would not have been able to do it if it wasn’t for me. I don’t dump on friends. I always ask for consent before even saying what I’m going through. I’m like, “Do you have time? I’m going through something. When can you talk?”
I had gone through something very dysfunctional and hurtful with my family. I was in Utah, and that’s exactly what I did. I was like, “Will you have time? This thing has happened. I feel completely alone. I need to talk to someone.” He said, “I’m not going to be able to help you. Good luck. Think positive.” He didn’t even ask me what was going on.
Another thing I’m thinking about is that I’m on this growth path, and I’m realizing that my friend is more stagnant.
You’ve been using this vibration metaphor.
I’m all about raising the vibration and trying to actively bring more of those types of people into my life and surrounding myself with more people like that. I’m noticing some of her behaviors are coming down to integrity, and not necessarily directed at me. Some of them are, but some of them are in other situations. I’m like, “That’s so not okay.”
Sometimes, people change for the worse. I had a friend break up with someone I went to college with, and she achieved considerable professional success. With some people, it would make you humble. For her, I could not believe how pretentious she got. I did let it fizzle over time. It was not the same person whom I had fallen in like with back in college.
It is interesting, this idea of reciprocity. I have a friend who always wants me to visit. He lives in a place I don’t want to visit. I say to him, “Do you need me there? If you need me there, I’m on a plane. Do you want me there? Let’s find another solution.”
I’m dying to know where he lives.
He lives in Edmonton, Canada. It’s only nice three months of the year. No offense. He gets it. He doesn’t want to be in Edmonton. My point is, “Do you need me there? Say the word. I’m on the plane. I’ll buy the ticket. Do you want me there now?” I was having another conversation with another friend who lives in another place that I don’t want to visit. He lives in Maine. I have visited him there more times than he has visited me here.
He’s tussling with this because he has a friend. He’s noticing that it doesn’t seem reciprocal. It’s not because this person’s canceling or anything like that, but he is always asking, “Do you want to get lunch? Do you want to go on a bike ride? Do you want to do this thing?” I was like, “You’re doing a friend breakup thing.” He’s like, “I’m not ready to break up with this person because they’re very important to me, but I’m going to step back and monitor if I give her some space, will she initiate?”
I did that with all of my friends. I’m the social butterfly and planning everything. I made a goal that for two weeks, I was not going to initiate anything with anyone. It was a relief. It was eye-opening as well. You and I have talked about this before. Some people are better about it than others.
Most people are bad about making plans. They’re bad about texting. They’re bad about making calls.
They end up with plans.
That’s how I was feeling.
Is it other people who are inviting them? We have talked about this before. Some people are better about staying connected. My mom has always said, “I can’t believe how many people you stay connected with over the years.” It’s mostly on me. I’m the one. I value connection. It’s such an interesting question. When you said that, I was like, “What would happen if I went quiet for two weeks?”
Try it.
First of all, I don’t like the idea of testing people, but it can be revealing. The more important thing is how you feel about it.
I felt so much pressure all the time to be the organizer in the group. I wasn’t testing people. I was taking that responsibility off of me.
That’s good. Anybody who knows me knows that I’m the one making plans and the one making calls. Julie, you’re an exception. You are very good at, “Let’s get together.”
I still feel like you call me way more than I call you.
I do.
I always answer.
You’re very good about this. I don’t resent it because, to me, that’s the way it is. I care more about when we get on the phone or when we get together, and if you are 100% present. That’s the thing. It’s not the ratio. It’s the quality that matters. My point in bringing this up is you don’t have to go from like, “Here we are to a breakup.” There are these in-between steps where maybe you’re redefining the relationship as you’re with your circle metaphor, or you’re experimenting with how it feels to be less connected and less involved. You, Janice, are very good about communication in your romantic life. I rereleased an episode on relationship design.
I got to check that one out.
It’s such an important episode. I put it out again because we should be doing this with all of our relationships. “How often do you want to see each other? What do you want to do? Is it a problem that I never come to visit? How are you feeling about things?” We never ask our friends these questions until it reaches some bending or breaking point.
I used to do a standing Monday happy hour with one of my best friends. She’s in a relationship, and it has completely stopped. I’m preparing to have a conversation about that.
How’s that going to go?
I’m going to be straight up with her.
You’re going to say, “I’ve noticed this.”
“I value our friendship and I miss you.”
This was an important thing for me. Also, I’m not sure maybe that she realizes how she’s coming off, so I do want to do it.
In her defense, the norm is that friendships are second. For most people, this is not a conscious decision. They’re playing a script, which is, “Here’s this new exciting person.” Not only do they take a lot of your time and energy, but they even have veto power over what you do. You have to be a rather elevated person to recognize that that doesn’t have to be the case. Also, it’s important to recognize you should not alienate your support system, especially if this dude ends up cheating on you and breaking up with you.
Statistically speaking, your friends will be around longer than your relationship.
I say that all the time. Saying something gives her a chance to snap out of it and go, “I didn’t even think about this. I could see how that would be upsetting to you.”
Maybe you go every other Monday and not every Monday.
That’s right.
I agree. It was something that we had done for years, maybe, and it stopped. It could even be telling her, “I miss this. I would like us to start it up again.”
That might be enough. That’s right. Let’s turn our attention to the breakup coach. You have a new website, too. What is it?
You got your name. Congratulations.
There’s only one other Janice Formichella in the entire country.
She did not get that URL.
Snooze, you lose.
Advice For Being The One Breaking Up
That’s right. You talk to people who are undergoing breakups, contemplating breakups, etc. Let’s focus not on the fizzling, but the finalizing. Maybe this will be helpful for me.
Maybe you two could have a session.
A lot of people want to know if they can do it by text. I say, “If that is going to allow you to do it and be honest with the person, then yes, if that’s going to get you to the point of doing it.” I also have the three Cs. First is Confident. Be sure that you want to do it. Doing it on the spur of the moment, for instance, is not advisable. Don’t do anything rash or compulsive. Think about it. Be sure that you want to do it. Be Clear with the person.
It’s Confident and Clear.
Tell them either you want space or it has run its course and you think you should part ways, or, “I don’t want to pursue a friendship with you.” Last is Concise.
Clear sounds like I statements. It’s not about, “You are a bad person.” You’re like, “I don’t want this anymore.”
Saying, “I want to break up,” I don’t think that’s clear. Say exactly how you’re feeling. Don’t mince words. Be concise. Nobody wants you to give a list of all of the reasons you don’t want them in your life. I also think you will not have regret later on if you are Concise, to the point, and are not personal and not critical of the person. You don’t need to go through your whole history of everything that they’ve ever done that bothers you. You’ll feel a lot better about yourself. You don’t want to go out of your way to harm someone even if they’ve harmed you. Keep it short and sweet.
I like that. It could be as concise as, “I don’t feel alignment anymore.”
We could come up with lots of ways for you to do it.
To me, I know what I need to say. It’s the pain of saying it.
It sucks, for sure. In my situation, I had already come up with the three Cs, so I was able to be direct and short with this person. It took a lot of the stress off of me for a little while. I did think, “I need to tell him the impact and give examples.” I know I didn’t want this person in my life anymore, and I thought he should at least know why. I want to get out of there. That’s why I blocked him. I’m done.
The three Cs are helpful. It gives you confidence where it’s not so hard to be like, “What should I say? Should I list the things? Should I say how I felt?” You can do the three Cs, and it’s quick. You rip the Band-Aid off.
That’s how I felt.
It’s not a negotiation. You need two people to both agree, same as a romantic relationship in that way. Did you want to add anything to the best practices for doing this?
I like that.
What I hear you saying is you have to be authentic. You don’t have to belabor this. This is an open idea. I’m sure some of your clients, Janice, have rituals to help them get over breakups, like listening to sad songs. Do you have a no contact rule?
Yes.
How many days is that no contact rule?
I recommend 3 months because by the end of the 3 months, you’re over it. You’re not thinking about it as much. I do want to be clear that people come to me because they are in pain over the breakup. If you are in pain over it, I don’t suggest that you keep putting your hand in the fire. I want to be clear. Breaking up with someone amicably, you might stay friends and might keep them in your life. That’s not why people are coming to me.
There’s a difference between romantic and friendship breakups, and here’s what it is. Some romantic breakups can transition into friendship. That happens a lot.
It has happened to me, and I’m thankful for that.
I call them break-offs. You go out with someone one, two, or three times and maybe fool around a little bit. It’s not quite right, so then they become a friend. That’s great. You don’t need the sex and the romance, but you have the friendship. When you have a friend breakup, there is no transitioning them into something else. You don’t turn a lover into a friend. You turn a friend into a stranger or into a memory, in a sense.
You’re often having some sort of negativity that makes you part ways. That’s why you would not stay friends with a romantic partner. If it blew up or you weren’t getting along, you would likely part ways.
Maybe, but you might break up with someone because you don’t see a future with them romantically.
That’s what I mean. It’s the same way with a friend breakup. Probably something has come to a head where you decide that you don’t want this person in your life anymore.
Suppose you don’t like having sex with this person, so you break off the romantic element to it.
That’s why you would say friends. You’re still getting along.
That’s right.
I have a friend whom I still keep in touch with who I had that exact situation years ago. We still talk all the time. Shout out Trevor Carroll.
That’s great.
There’s also the distinction between whether you want to break it off completely or transition to a middle or outer circle.
Sometimes, when they’re like, “Let’s be friends,” they’re not being honest when they say that. It’s their way to make it a little bit easier on the person. It’s like, “You’re still a great person. Let’s be friends,” but they don’t have the desire to make friends. I have both female friends who were platonic from day one, like Julie, and then others whom I’ve met on Bumble. We went out a couple of times and we’re pals. What I’m getting to is, are there ritualizations around friendship breakups? Are there things that you could do? You could have a final dinner together.
That sounds painful.
I’m coming up with ideas. Whether you’re the dumper or the dumpee or the ditchee or the ditcher, it hurts. It doesn’t feel good. Are there ways to help you find closure? Maybe it’s even writing in your journal about the good memories you have with this person.
Maybe not for finding closure, but I know when you’re trying to change a habit, you can’t stop the old habit. You have to have something productive to fill that space with. If you’re making this decision, how are you going to fill that void and plan for it? Otherwise, you’re sitting there like, “Now I don’t have this thing. What do I do?” In romantic breakups, that’s when you get tempted to text and rekindle.
One of the most common advice for breakups is to find a new routine. I have two ideas. First of all, in order to keep it concise, write about it in your journal. Write a letter to the person. There, go through all the ways that you feel mistreated or when they didn’t show up for you. I had somebody send me a three-page PDF in 2024 about why he didn’t want to be friends with me anymore. It was not only painful, but we live in the same neighborhood. It has been awful. It was personal. He should have taken it to his journal. That’s what I’ve done first.
Was it single-spaced or double-spaced?
It was double-spaced and a half. 1.5, I believe. This is what I did with both of these cases. This is a perfect thing to talk to your therapist about.
Also, a friend or a confidant. I made a joke about it, but it’s awful to have someone drop that on you. It’s mean.
Let me tell you a little something. Maybe it was the universe knowing that I was going to do this episode. We live in the same neighborhood. In a year, I don’t think I’ve seen him. I saw him not long ago. We were walking toward each other. This letter was almost violent. He said that I’d filled them with rage and vengeance from not getting together with him twice. I crossed to the other side of the freaking road because there’s no way I’m having a confrontation with this person. I was a little flustered and forgot that was the side of the road that he lives on. I see him going across the street, and then I go back to the other side of the road.
I would’ve turned around and walked away, like, “I forgot something.”
It’s so cringeworthy.
It was, but I was not going to walk, walk him. At the moment, I was like, “What should I do?”
Any other rituals or best practices? Certainly, leaning on your support network. For example, Julie knows Francis and knows our history. She knows the story. She’s someone I can talk to about it. Friends would often be like, “You’re overreacting,” or, “You’re not overreacting.”
You’re justified.
Maybe you don’t see something that they see, so it’s useful to have a sounding board, a therapist, or even ChatGPT. It’s crazy. You can get some good advice sometimes.
Coming back to my situation and my looking to help raise the vibration in the world, as I’ve started manifesting that, more people are coming into my life who are amazing. The shifting of this other friendship will be easier now that I have started to fill that void ahead of time.
When I teach business students, I often say, “You should be looking to raise prices. If you create a lot of value, you should raise prices.” I feel like there’s something akin to that with regard to your friend. If you’re providing a lot of value as a friend and you’re a good friend, and other people are like, “You are a good friend,” you should not tolerate people who are not good friends.
Get to know people first before you dive into hanging out every day or putting too many expectations on them. It’s the same within a romantic.
Advice For Being The One Broken Up With
Take it slow. Slow to hire, quick to fire. Although with friends, slow to hire, slow to fire is my feeling about this. You get some more mulligans. In my world, people are imperfect. They have bad days. They have rough spots. We have a reader question to end with, but before we do that, I want to switch and talk about being the person broken up with. Janice, you’ve already shared one story with a three-page 1.5 space PDF. What if you’re the one being finalized or someone’s telling you, “I don’t want to be friends anymore.” What’s the best way to handle that?
You’ve got to get out of your system. That is why I took this letter to therapy. I read it out loud to him, and I cried because it was very hurtful. I was cycling. It was jarring. I wanted to get it out of my system as quickly as possible. Even if someone sends you a text, that’s going to be hurtful. Get support, talk it through, and “shake it off” as soon as you’re able. You have to let yourself grieve. You have to let yourself tell somebody how hurtful this was. Maybe rant a little. All I talked about in that therapy session was how unfair it was. I was able to move on faster.
Maybe you could write your own journal letter with all the things you would’ve wanted to reply to the PDF that you’re not going to, or therapy and talking it through. Even though it hurts, I still try to shift myself to a place of gratitude and lessons learned. When romantic relationships have ended, I’ve written in my journal a gratitude letter to that person. Even through pain, there are so many lessons.
I did that, like, “Why did I attract this particular man into my life?” I had a similar pattern before. I was able to say, “What was my responsibility?”
You were getting a valuable lesson out of that, too. That makes sense.
As far as a ritual goes, I printed off the PDF, sent a copy to one of my friends, and then deleted it from my computer. Being all witchy, I went to burn it, and I set off the fire alarm. I couldn’t get it off, so I had to rip it out of the wall.
It sounds like a scene from a romcom. Allowing yourself to grieve in healthy ways is important. I don’t drink anymore, but whenever I used to go through a bad romantic breakup, I would stop drinking. There’s this tendency where people use alcohol to cope, for example. What are healthy coping mechanisms you could use? Spending time with friends, taking care of your health, and focusing on the positive. It came to me. I had a friend try to break up with me.
Try?
He was fizzling, but I picked up on it. He said something to me about him being disappointed with me as a friend. I did not know that he was feeling this way. He has a very small number of friends. I have this huge group of friends, so I do a lot of juggling and so on. He had let me into his inner circle, and then he had felt like I had not lived up to the expectations.
When I realized this, I was upset about it. I did not want to lose him as a friend. I valued his friendship. We had some very vulnerable conversations where I apologized and I sought to remedy that situation. I feel fortunate because he is still a friend. He’s a great person. I love him. I felt lucky he gave me a chance to reconcile in that way.
That’s great.
After that conversation, have you changed your behavior to prioritize him? It sounds like he wanted to be more of a priority than you were making him because you have more friends.
This is terrible because I can’t exactly remember how he phrased it. I, as is typically the case, reach out to him more than he does to me, which is the norm in all of my relationships.
That seems like the norm.
Some of it was a lack of communication.
Saying, “I value your friendship,” made him feel better.
Yeah, and I got to clarify why I had behaved the way I had in the past. I was being broken up with, and I managed to block the breakup. Anything else about if you’re the person being broken up with? You can accept it with grace. That is one way. The other one is to see if there’s some way to reconcile.
It’s okay to be hurt. It’s okay to grieve.
That’s important. Let’s finish with the listener questions. This is a little long, so bear with me. I usually post on the Solo community, which you can sign up for at PeterMcGraw.org/Solo, when I’m preparing an episode and people weigh in. We’ve covered this a little bit, but I want to see if we can go a little deeper into it. This reader wrote, “I’d love to hear thoughts on being completely over on always being the one to reach out, to try to get plans going, to resurrect a stalled texting string, etc.
This is the case with all my friend groups. I’m pretty sure if I didn’t do these things, I would never see them. Is that what should be happening? Should I let these friendships drop and hope I can make new ones? It seems nearly impossible as an adult to make new friends, but I’m tired of being the one to keep things going. When we do get together, it’s wonderful. We connect and are genuinely glad we did, but I always have to be the one to get the plans going.
It sounds like a mindset thing, first of all. I would say letting go of a little bit of the resentment. It’s a case-by-case basis, depending on the friendship.
This sounds like it’s a regular thing across all friends, so there’s either something about this person’s behavior or their choice of friends, or both, that is leading to this.
Where does she want to put more energy, depending on the particular friend? When I took this break from not initiating, I loved it. It was eye-opening. A lot of my core group of friends continued to completely reach out and then would plan things. Maybe people expect it out of her because she’s been doing it for so long. That is a position that you can have in your friend group. That’s me and Peter. It is a friend-by-friend basis rather than letting this resentment build up like she has.
Julie and I were having some issues with a woman I was planning a date with. Julie sent me, “What are your boundaries?” We have this tendency to want to like, have flexible boundaries when something’s important to us, for example.
What came to me as you were sharing your own story about stepping back is that sometimes, if you step back, you leave space for other people to step into that responsibility. I’m a planner. You’re both planners. We may get to it before everyone else does.
That is what I discovered with a few people 1000%.
My friend in Maine is experimenting with this very same thing. According to my three characteristics of a good friendship, equal reciprocity is not on the list.
Good point.
I did a little bit of research on this early in my academic career. There are these different norms associated with relationships. There are hierarchical relationships. You have a boss and a subordinate. You have market relationships. You have someone who pays money and someone who does something in exchange for that. You have reciprocity. It’s tit for tat, like, “I take you to the airport when you go to the airport. You take me to the airport when I go.”
The final one is called communal. You give as you can and take as you need. With a family member, you’re like, “I always take my sister to the airport and she never takes me.” That doesn’t sound right because it’s your sister. If she needs the ride to the airport, you give the ride to the airport. If you treat your friendships as communal, it can remove that need for everything to be equal.
If that’s your role, that’s your role. I needed to give myself a break because it was a lot of pressure. Also, when someone would cancel, I’d get so annoyed. Being my role in the group, I did have people express gratitude to me all the time, and I still do.
If people don’t say, “Thank you,” that’s concerning. They take it as like, “This is what you’re supposed to do. You’re lucky to spend time with me,” versus, “Thanks so much for setting that up.”
They threw the biggest birthday party for me. I took the break because I needed to for various reasons, but I know that they care about me and that they’re thankful for me.
I love that concept of the communal. Give as you can and take as you need. It’s not these expectations, which are a full circle to what we were saying earlier. With friends, you have fewer expectations than you do with romantic partners.
This reader could do a lot of things. Like Janice, take a little bit of a break, assess, and see how it feels. Do you miss these people? Do people step up?
Have conversations and say, “I value this.”
Say, “I love spending time with you. I’m noticing that I am the one who’s always making plans. I want to check in on that. Is that because I don’t give you any space to make plans? Do we end up doing things that I want to do? Are there things that you want to do that you would want to initiate?”
I had said to a couple of people in a cute way, “I’m going to wait to hear from you,” and see what happened.
I would not encourage this person to start fresh. If someone treats you badly, you want to blame that other person. I’m always like, “What did I do to lead to that? Did I invite this bad person into my life? Did I mistreat them? Did I misinterpret?” I would not say to blow it all up and start fresh. I would say a mix of space and conversation, especially inviting. It’s like, “I would love for you to suggest we do something that I wouldn’t think of.”
The reader also said that they have a great time when they get together.
Good point.
You can play on that, like, “I love when we spend time.” Some people are better at it than others. If you feel the connection when you’re together, that’s the important thing. How does the connection feel when you’re together? They’re not blowing you off. They’re making plans. You’re having fun. Maybe your role in the community is being the planner. Maybe that’s how it is.
Extroverted people are going to be more comfortable with it. That’s a good point.
The way to sum this up is, is this a feature or a bug? A feature of the relationship is you’re good at this stuff. If it’s appreciated and you’re getting value from it, maybe it’s switching into this communal mindset.
That is what you said at the beginning.
Thank you.
Janice, thank you.
This was fun. It was great to meet you, Janice.
Thank you so much. This was great. This is an important conversation.
I agree. Cheers.
Bye, everyone.
Important Links
- Janice Formichella
- Janice Formichella on LinkedIn
- Janice Formichella on Instagram
- Natural Products Executive Collective
- Julie Nirvelli
- Relationship Design (Again)
- Listener Questions #2
- Creating Your Solo Space
- Sex and the Solo Girl Podcast
About Julie Nirvelli
Julie Nirvelli was born and raised in San Jose, CA and earned her college degree from Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo. She has lived in Colorado for 18+ years. As a strong, independent and fun-loving person, Julie embraces the solo life. She is also a Solo sponsor, with her company Bachelor Girl productions, which offers you fun flirty t-shirts.
About Janice Formichella
Janice Formichella is a breakup coach and the host of the podcast Sex and the Solo Girl. She is passionate about helping people from all backgrounds to beat their breakup, overcome loneliness, and make the end of a relationship the start of a powerful new beginning.