In this episode of Solo, Peter McGraw talks to Janice Formichella, a breakup coach and member of the Solo community, about the challenge of loneliness. Together, they explore the complex nature of loneliness—whether social or romantic—and practical strategies to combat it. Whether you’re navigating the end of a relationship or simply seeking to better understand and cope with loneliness, this conversation offers valuable insights and actionable advice. There is also fun bonus material for this episode where Janice and Peter talk about their love of the show, Queer Eye. You can access bonus material by signing up to be part of the Solo community: https://petermcgraw.org/solo/
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Listen to Episode #227 here
Coping with Loneliness
Welcome back. We are here to talk about a pernicious challenge of contemporary living, loneliness. My return guest is a breakup coach and the host of the newly launched podcast, Sex and the Solo Girl, which is edgy, bold, and insightful. She’s passionate about helping people from all backgrounds beat their breakups, overcome loneliness, and make the end of a relationship the start of a powerful new beginning. Welcome back, Janice Formichella.
Thank you. It’s exciting and fun to be back.
We’re in the Solo studio, and we’re delving into a topic that affects too many, Loneliness. If you’ll indulge me, I want to do a little bit of defining, and editorializing before we get to the heart of this episode which is how to deal with this. Should someone be challenged by loneliness? What is loneliness? It’s not being alone.
I think that anybody who reads this, anybody who’s a solo knows that. It’s a subjective feeling of isolation. I think that’s important, which is it’s subjective. It’s independent of your actual objective. Circumstance. That can have a significant effect on our mental and physical health. The people who deal with chronic loneliness, in particular, also have a whole host of associated mental and physical challenges.
It’s a complex topic, and it exists when someone experiences some discrepancy between their desired state of the world and their actual state of the world about their social relationships. There’s a lot that goes into this. There’s an evolutionary hardwiring. For much of human history, to go it alone was certain death. Due to evolution, we are on the lookout for getting too isolated.
Then, as I’m sure we’re going to talk about, there’s a profound cultural element to this, which is the expectations that we should have about our social relationships, most notably our romantic ones. There are these two forms of loneliness or romantic loneliness and there’s social loneliness. You can have one and not the other. You could have neither, and you could have both. To give a sense of the prevalence of this, I did a bit of research.
This can affect people of all ages. Young people often experience it in part because they have not worked through the repertoire of how to deal with this. They also may not have developed the relationships that they want, especially romantic ones. I remember being a very young man and experiencing a lot of romantic loneliness.
This is interesting because just as many married people report loneliness as unmarried.
Yes, and I think that has more of a social element in some ways because you can become very isolated within an escalated relationship or that partner is not providing what you want them to provide. Then, it can happen also, especially on the other end of life. Aged folks lost their spouse. They’re divorced. They’ve outlived their friends and you can become legitimately isolated as a result.
Living alone too.
Living alone, and again, becoming increasingly alone in the way you live too. A recent study reported that in the United States, about 20 out of 100 middle-aged adults report feeling lonely. That’s a substantial minority. A much higher rate than in Europe, which is more like 15 out of 100. I think cultural norms, the nature of society, community, etcetera. We’re here to talk about strategies to cope with loneliness. Janice, this is something you think a lot about, you help people with. Where should we start?
Coping With Loneliness
Thank you very much. I love this topic because I work with people who are going through breakups, and I noticed that many people were mentioning this especially when it comes to dating again, which bummed me out. Yes, I started doing research. Also, it’s based a lot on my own life and what I’ve what I’ve learned. A place to start is learning to self-soothe and that is taking responsibility for not only your loneliness and community but also anxiety and stress. If you’re going to overcome loneliness. I always talk about it as maybe being your best friend or your main support. There are lots of ways to learn how to self-soothe.
I’m glad you brought this to the forefront. The research on coping and how you cope with negative emotions breaks the coping process into two different ways that you go about doing it. One is what’s called Emotion-Focused Coping. The other one is called Behavior-Focused Coping or Problem-Focused Coping in a way.
What you’re suggesting is this is an emotional one. You have these negative emotions. How do you find a way to reduce those on your own without changing any of your behavior, without finding a new lover, without finding a new friend, and without anything? It’s just, “How do I work inside myself on this? What are some of those?
Learning to cope with anxiety and leaning into it. There are various ways that you deal with this and I’ve learned from myself, that instead of picking up the phone, sitting with the discomfort of it, maybe doing something like going on a walk, deep breathing, or a distraction, that sort of thing. If you’re going to be living alone and overcoming loneliness, as I said, being your support can be useful. I’m not saying not to rely on friends and to go to external sources to help, but being able to do it on your own first. This is something that I had to learn and it was just so much freedom once I learned how to do this.
Yes. I do want to say this. I think what we’re going to offer is a menu of options.
Yes. I have a lot more.
What works for one person may not work for another person. What might work for one situation may not work for another. This is more descriptive rather than prescriptive. I do have one prescription that I want to highlight, which is when we get to the end of this show, someone may attempt to do some or all of these things to try to address their loneliness, whether it be acute or chronic, and it does not work. It will not be sufficient.
In that case, I think getting some professional help could be very useful. One thing that does work for a variety of mental health issues is Cognitive Behavioral therapy. To do a Cognitive Behavioral Therapy right, you need an expert, a therapist who’s trained to do that. Another little bit more of a far-out woo-woo thing might be, a psychedelic-assisted journey.
How do you, to your point about sitting with and addressing, perhaps, psychedelics might be a way now that we’re seeing them decriminalized? We’re seeing them enter into more of a therapeutic mainstream program, etcetera. That might be something that people could consider beyond just nonprofessionals.
I approve. Also, a great great resource on self-soothing is Polysecure by Jessica Fern. She talks extensively about how to overcome relationship anxiety by self-soothing. I would recommend that whether or not you consider yourself nonmonogamous, it’s a great resource for that.
Yes, I think that one of the things that happens a lot is, once you step out of the mainstream, once you step out of the conventional, these points of friction go way up because you’re in uncharted territory. The people who write about these things, the people who do this work can often have very good advice for the traditional folks.
I recommend this book to anybody who wants to work on their attachment styles. I do have other, tips though based on my own life, my research, and how I help my clients.
Meditative Approach
Let’s lean a little bit more into the self-soothing.
Let’s do it.
What are some examples? I like this meditative approach. We tend to want to distract, to occupy ourselves when we’re experiencing negative emotions. That can be useful and we’ll talk about some of those ways, for example, members of the community have done this. There is this notion, the reversal of sorts, which is how do you sit with this feeling? How do you meditate on this feeling? One of the things that can happen is that can help it to dissipate.
Yes, give it some time and also, you need to simply practice and get used to it. A lot of people feel anxiety and emotions in the moment and over time will get used to coping with it on their own. Also, get used to having it in their body, leaning into it, having faith, and knowing that it’s going to pass.
Yes. We’re not meant to live a life of all goodness. The human condition brings forth pain that is impossible to avoid, especially if you want to live a remarkable life. If you want to take chances, if you want to pursue love and romance, it’s impossible to avoid heartbreak and loss. If you want important people in your life, you risk losing them. That element of the human condition, I think, is unavoidable, and being able to sit with that and to appreciate the insights, the goodness of life, and how it’s a yin and yang, I think.
As I said, over time, you get comfortable with the feelings in your body. I used to pick up the phone or talk to whoever was near me whenever something came up. Even just sitting and feeling the things in my body, I got used to it and then I discovered strategies to deal with it but most of all, I was able to take my friendships and develop them in other ways rather than help me all the time.
Then again, of course, if that person can’t help you at that moment, they’re occupied, they don’t pick up the phone.
At work. I used to just bother everybody no matter what they were doing.
I do think there’s value in that, and we’ll talk about about that. If I’m in a very bad spot, I’ll often send a few text messages to people, “Can you talk?”
Asking for consent. I think that that’s a great thing to do.
I’ve had some times where I’ve had to say, “This is important.” You think about it. If I get that text, if I can drop everything, I will.
I still think that it’s self-soothing, though. When you reach out to somebody and say, “When you can, can we talk about this?”
One of my experiences with my therapist when I was actively seeing him was the great benefit of just making an appointment.
I sometimes see clients make turnarounds just by contacting me or just by signing up for a program.
You just know that there’s some hope. A solution, someone to talk to. That is a problem-focused. I’m going to go talk to someone to help me address this.
It’s very proactive too. That could fall into self-soothing as well. Making a plan and then executing it.
What are some ways that people can self-soothe? You’ve talked about just sitting with this and noticing how your body feels, noticing what your thoughts are, breathing to try to bring perhaps, if you’re feeling anxious, feeling fearful. It is because, again, a bit of the roots of loneliness are in fear.
That’s a good point. I also think this is just completely practical, but turning on music and having that, almost ready to go, something that will take you maybe out of your head. When we listen to upbeat music or music that we enjoy, it also affects our bodies. It makes us want to move a certain way, and it’s happy too. These are all positive things. Generally, though. That’s one of my tips for loneliness too is to watch what media you expose yourself to. Be careful, about that because that can have a big impact on how you feel in the moment, how you feel about life is so. Watch positive things.
It’s very easy to lean into sad love songs and to have that dreariness, “Woe is me.” feeling.
There are lots of depressing shows too, and be careful about about that. These things get in our system.
Watch It’s a Wonderful Life.
No matter what time of year, I always recommend that show, Grace and Frankie, for something just positive.
I do agree with you that media matters. I don’t know about you, but when I’m often at my worst, at the end of the day, it’s no surprise, because you’ve had all the things that can happen in a day that might build up. Also, you’re often tired.
A bit of a comedown, I also think, especially with you with such a busy lifestyle, you feel a little tired. One of my tips around loneliness is having routines. A lot of people fill it in the morning or the evening. I suppose that’s semi-obvious. Having a morning routine when you know what to expect and it’s positive. You don’t have to be letting your mind wander. Also, I think white space is something that causes people to feel lonely. You don’t know what to expect. You don’t know what’s coming up. Taking responsibility and taking charge of your routines, especially if that’s the time of day is triggering for you. It helps a lot.
Think about it, you’re tired, and you don’t have the resources to cope as well. This might be a time of day when you would like to have a partner. You think about it like you have lots of social interaction but you live alone, it’s like, there you are alone and that can stand out. You’re not at your best, and you might be at a time where you might be craving some intimacy, I think.
One of the things that I always like to do is to say, “Do you know what? When I wake up tomorrow, this is not going to feel as concerning as it is now.” It is because it rarely does. You’ve got a fresh start to the day. You’ve gotten some rest. Just recognizing the potential temporary nature of this feeling.
Again, sitting with the discomfort of it and taking action, is there something that you can look forward to at the end of the day to soften the blow, I suppose?
Certainly, and this has just been my observation. The people who struggle most with this are men. Men aren’t very good at soothing themselves or taking care of themselves.
That’s what I was going to say. They’re not raised to expect that.
If you think about it, this is very gendered, but certainly part of the culture is that “Be tougher” is a message that men get. Deal with it. Be a man. Man up. They don’t ever develop a repertoire around being nice to themselves. I see men talk about taking a bath and having candles. It’s true. A bath is very soothing.
Yeah, you’re right.
It is very peaceful. I never took baths because I never fit in a tub. Now, I have a tub that I can fit in. I take baths very regularly now. I put on the music and I light the candles. I channel my inner femininity by allowing myself to relax and enjoy.
Why is it feminine? Femininity?
I think that femininity has a stronger element of compassion, in caregiving.
Certain types of sensuality, I would suppose, as well.
Yes, whereas, masculinity is a little bit more of this assertiveness and robustness and so on. I’m speaking outside the walls of gender here. I’m just talking about the yin and yang of masculine and feminine.
More about just a bath.
A bath is just nice regardless of what it is but the idea is that your mind may not go to that as a guy, I think, again, speaking generally or broadly.
As far as being assertive and creating a routine, I think my male clients almost get more into that concept than my female. My male clients are curious, and analytical, want to write things down, and want to be proactive. Also, I think a lot of them haven’t thought of this before, and haven’t spoken with someone about it before. I think that’s powerful. The fact that they’re speaking to someone about it. Someone who cares and somebody who has a lot of ideas and does these things in her life, that can be exciting.
Obviously, validating because if you’re saying, “I know how that feels.” “I have lots of clients who deal with this.” I want to add one other to the soothing side, especially close to the end of the day. Anybody who listens frequently knows how much I advocate journaling, especially gratitude journaling.
No matter how bad our lives feel, even no matter how bad they may be in the moment, you can find things to be grateful for. It’s not in our nature to focus on the positive. It’s in our nature to focus on the negative. That’s also evolutionary. If you think about it, the risks in the world, we need to pay lots and lots of attention to.
We tend to turn our attention away from the rewards of life. A particular form of gratitude journaling is what went well and why. This doesn’t have to be relationship-based, but it may be relationship-based if you’re feeling lonely. I had a wonderful call with my friend, Janice, earlier. Why was that good? She made me laugh. I got to share some good news with her. What gratitude journaling in this form does is, one, it focuses your attention on the positive and it also reminds you of a repertoire of behaviors that give rise to positivity, which is what I called my friend. I picked up the phone even though I was busy. I shared the good news with someone.
Community And Relationships
Another way or another prompt also is to say, “I’m thankful for myself for doing this.” Just a little tweak, a little reframing. There are general ways to do this, and there are specific ones that may resonate with someone. What would be an example of that framing? Someone wanted to engage in that gratitude.
I’m thankful to myself for calling my friend, Peter because it helped my stress, made me feel like a good friend, and made me laugh.
I like that. I want to finish with a comment from, Lindsay who’s part of the Solo community, which you can sign up for at PeterMcGraw.org/Solo. It’s been enjoyable, especially now that many people are involved in it.
It’s active. It’s great.
Yes. This is an online community that I have. She writes, “I think reframing one’s mindset can also help tremendously. Taking the time to be grateful for how lucky we are to have the life that we do, taking a walk in nature, volunteering our times or services to give back to others, which I think is a nice segue into the next one.” I’d like to just say how lucky we are to be alive. It sounds trite in some ways to say that, but it’s very easy to take that for granted.
Especially if you’re lonely. Most of the sperm don’t make it. Most of the eggs never hatch. No matter how bad it could be, you get a chance to do this, and having that opportunity is very nice. I’m sure this is one that you cover extensively. In some ways, it is focused on the objective side of the issue, which is how you create and nurture connections, the kind you want.
Now, I have a forthcoming little two-part series that I’m preparing about, seeking romance as a sequel. Which I think is underserved because it’s not something that’s on my radar so much at this stage in life. I’m much more focused on a broader array of connections in my life, friendship, and community in particular, but we could talk about both of these here.
How do we build strong meaningful relationships with friends, family, family of choice, community, or romantic partners that are out there? It is because that discrepancy is you don’t have that thing and you want that thing. Let’s talk a little bit about that. This is something the Solo community weighed in on when they were talking about their strategies.
Yes, they did. First of all, a lot of us do have people in our lives. This is something that I have on my whiteboard right now to look around first and see who you have, and then I call it, “Water my Relationships.” Putting forth the effort, seeing who you can just send a nice text message to, see what preexisting relationships you can strengthen. I will say that that’s a starting point. A few of the people who I can think of off the top of my head who would probably say they experience loneliness are also the people who I don’t hear from a lot or who don’t initiate getting together. Water your relationships first.
My version of this is one word, “Try.” Especially, when you get to the middle of life. When I was younger, I had already made friends in my dormitory. I had a little when I first moved in my early 30s to Boulder, we had almost like a 90210 situation in the apartment. Where you’re just, “What are you doing tonight?” Life became very impromptu or improvisational. It was very easy to reach people and connect to them.
You get into the middle of life, especially if you’re single and you have lots of married friends who are parents and so on. I’ve legitimately had people say, “Yes, let’s get together.” I’m available five weeks from now right? For this moment, in that sense. That doesn’t help when you’re feeling that. How do you try to facilitate these relationships that you already have?
You’re good at that. When we had the game night, you took the initiative to have people around you and have people meet each other.
You have to be willing to be rejected. Unlike dating where you put yourself out there. You ask someone out on a date. You invite people to do things. They’re not available. They don’t want to do those things, perhaps. You also have to recognize that you may end up giving a lot more than you get. I’ll never get invited to as many game nights as I’ve hosted.
Yes and sometimes I was talking with a friend yesterday saying that we’re two extroverts who are coming to speak about loneliness, and I do want to recognize that. I think a lot of introverted people can use that as an excuse, and I would just say sending a text is not that difficult.
It’s not a big hurdle.
Exactly. Just ask.
Yes. This came up in the Generosity and Legacy episode which I liked, which is the people who love you want to help. They want to be there for you and you could be too proud at times to say, “I just need someone to listen.” or “I just want somebody to join me for a walk.” I think that the people who love you are happy to do that because they want to see you happy. They want to see you thriving. If you have a friendship, it’s going to be mutually beneficial. You do this for them as needed or you contribute to their lives in other ways.
Even people who you don’t know as well but are just in your realm, people like being invited to things. Right. It feels good. Put yourself out there and strengthen the ones you already have, which may sound easier said than done, but it’s going to help long term.
Watering Relationships
Yes, I do think the other one is I like this idea of watering your friends. You don’t water your flowers only when you want to look at them. Only when you want to enjoy them. You nurture them all the time.
I’m glad you’re saying that because many of my breakup clients will talk to me about their loneliness. What do many people do when they’re in relationships? They Neglect their friendships. Keep that in mind because you’re going to need these people. You’re going to benefit from having a community no matter what happens with your relationship. Let’s face it, a lot of them end.
Yes, Friendships tend to be more stable than romantic relationships. They can often withstand a lot more of the challenges. They can morph better. The thing that I think is an unfortunate norm around a lot of dating, is we don’t have the same goals. We have to cease communication a lot of the time rather than adjusting that relationship to fit a new dynamic, a new container, or something.
And a lot of my clients say that they’re just used to having someone around. That creates loneliness.
Yes, if you’re if you’re not comfortable with that solitude. I’m a big fan of the phone call. I want to bring back the phone.
I talk on the phone a lot. I love girl talk. I’ll stay on the phone with some of my friends for an hour at a time.
I regularly pick up the phone, go through the list, and call people. If they’re not available, they’re not available. If they pick up, that’s great. I have friends who I certainly have cultivated stronger relationships with because they pick up. Even if it’s a ten-minute talk because I’m just commuting somewhere. I’m hands-free. Don’t worry, folks.
Also, you feel like you’re hanging out. I mean, you are.
Yes, that’s right. It’s like having someone in the passenger seat, in the sense but I do think you’re right. This idea of calling people with good news, calling people to say, “I was just thinking about you.” Of course, the texts are good too and the texts are also a good entryway because once someone responds, then you can just pick up the phone and give them a call. This happens when I do my mushroom trips. I want to turn text messages into phone calls. I want to turn phone calls into coffee. I want to turn coffee into events.
Going Out
I love these realizations that you get, and I love that you’re public about it. Also, these types of experiences can sometimes help you to access certain levels of joy that you might not access on a normal day, and then you can bring them into your life.
Yes. Steve writes, “When I do feel lonely, I extend the casual conversations I have with people at the store, pool, walking the dog, etcetera. That little bit of human interaction helps a lot.”
I love it. I know that not everybody has, access to this, but I have a community pub or a neighborhood pub. There are 40% of people who live alone in Colorado. In my particular neighborhood, a lot of people. I’m in the downtown area and there are mostly singles at the bar, I will say, and I’ve met friends there. Yes, having human interaction and being out of the house, are some of my secrets to success.
That’s right. I think it’s very easy to go out and be alone in public. I had a solitude episode, and a particular form of solitude is to be alone amongst others. I love that. I love going to my cafes. Having the energy and the people watching, but that’s it. You say hello to someone. You may chit-chat with the barista a little bit.
I was going to say talking with the staff.
Yes, but there are these serendipitous moments if you’re open to them. It’s interesting, Janice. Prior to our taping, I was at a local coffee shop and I texted a new friend. I made a new friend. His name is David.
See? You can do it even as an adult.
That’s right. I made a a new friend, this guy David and it just happened that we were at this coffee shop, and he was reading something. I made some comments about what he was reading. We started talking. I found out he’s a fellow writer. I gave him my Solo book. He was the first person to ever read the Solo book who wasn’t involved in the process. I had just received the box of books from the publisher. Now, when I go to a coffee shop, I’ll often break from my routine, which is a writing or creative process, and say, “I’m going to be here at this time.” and he often says, “I’ll swing by.”
We do that at the pub for sure. It’s great. I just want to point out quickly. You said that these are easy things to do, which I agree, especially because they’re part of my life now but a lot of people don’t see it that way. I encourage my clients to go out and do things on their own. I have many clients who just think that it would be way too uncomfortable to go to a bar, restaurant, or coffee shop on their own. A lot of people talk about how it would look weird to others or that they would feel awkward. I would encourage people reading this particular episode to push themselves. Even if it feels awkward the first time, you’ll get used to it and you’ll start to enjoy it.
It is liberating to not feel constrained about where you can go. The fact that you need someone else to accompany you to a movie, to a museum, to even just a cafe, no one is judging you. No one is noticing that you’re alone. Frankly, there are probably some people there with their husband, wife, girlfriend, or boyfriend who wish they could be alone with you.
Also, the more that you can do on your own, the more confident you will become. The benefits to your life with high confidence.
An entry-level alternative to this is to find a ready-made group. Volunteering is a great way to deal with loneliness. Not only does it bring you in contact with people, but it can provide a sense of purpose and belonging.
Healthy distractions.
Wendy in the community room. You know Wendy. You know you’re famous in the community when people just know you by your first name. I plan to volunteer with my neighborhood council. I also plan to volunteer for a local coalition with a mission to hold elected politicians accountable. These are ready-made groups that you can just step into. The people who volunteer are good. They’re the people you want in your life. I think that’s good. Meetup groups are great.
I was just going to say, that for my clients who struggle with this, I just ask them to download the Meetup app. Start to look around. I’m not going to push you to do anything. We’ll go at your pace but I’m a big fan of the Meetup app.
Yes. I use Meetup when I’m traveling abroad sometimes. I travel solo a lot. Usually, my evenings are undetermined a lot of times. I will look for a writing group. Sometimes they’re in the evening, and sometimes they’re in the morning but if I could find a writing group, that would be great because it exposes me to people with similar interests. It exposes me to a cafe, usually.
What a writing meetup often looks like is everybody comes together at a certain time. You introduce yourself. You say what you’re going to work on. For one hour to one hour and thirty minutes, you write. Then, you do a debrief with everyone. It usually breaks for social hour and people can just mingle about and say, “I’m also working on a piece of creative nonfiction. Tell me more about what you’re doing.” and so on. That’s a nice entryway into the more introverted kind of.
That is interesting. I’m sitting here with just the sheer smile on my face because I would have never thought to do that when I travel.
I have another one that I want to add in terms of connecting. Pets. I have a part-time dog. People will know, called, Scout. My friend Clover is Scout’s owner, and guardian. Every so often, especially when I’m feeling a little melancholy, a little out of sorts, I’ll send Clover a text and say, “Is Scout available tomorrow?” Clover works and Scout is often at home waiting for Clover to get home. She says, “She would love to see you.” She gives me the door code and lays out Scout’s stuff. I swing by in the morning, I pick up Scout, and we spend a day together.
Does he come here?
Yes. That’s Scout’s sheet.
That surprises me a little bit.
Scout and I have a day. I take Scout on walks. I go to the dog park. Of course, what happens when you’re at the dog park? There are the dogs and there are the owners and people chitchat.
This is giving you something to do. Giving you something to nurture and getting you outside.
That’s right. Yes. Do you know what? I’ll tell you this. No one gives a shit about me in the real world. When I’m walking around, I’m invisible but when I’m with Scout, I’m like the PR agent to a celebrity.
What a good idea. That’s cute. As far as nurturing goes, this might seem simple, but getting houseplants also gives you something to do and something to nurture. Plus, it adds a lot to your space, enjoying being at home is also important when you’re struggling with loneliness.
Yes. There’s research on this that shows that caring for a plan or a pet of some sort, even if it’s a part-time pet. That’s there. Don’t be afraid to borrow someone’s cat or someone’s dog. Also, it breaks a little bit of your routine. These are love machines. They are. They’re love machines. Let’s talk about friends and family of choice.
Your idea of, watering friends, it’s also is watering family, keeping those connections going. I started calling my sister and now we’re at that age where our unhappy childhood is a little more comedic than tragic. My sister has known me longer than anyone else and gets me as well as anyone else. We’re starting to have these wonderful conversations where they’re very authentic. They’re very vulnerable. They’re very fun, where we’re taking these walks down memory lane and I just feel warm.
I was going to say if it’s joyful and good for your well-being to water your relationships with your family.
Yes. That’s right. If it is. I think the issue is this, regardless of the nature of the relationship. I’m going to revisit my three characteristics of friends, a good friend, or of remarkable friend as I like to say. Do they bring value to your life and vice versa? Is your life better off with them in it than with them out of it? Do they practice compersion?
I just did an episode about compersion.
Yes. Are they anti jealous? Do they celebrate your successes? Do they commiserate with your failures? They’re not competitive with you. They’re not frenemies. Then the last one is, are they high integrity? Do they show up when they say they’re going to show up? Are they honest with you? Are they reliable? If you can check those three boxes, these are important people to have in your life and you ought not to take them for granted.
Agreed. Water your relationships with these people.
Now, I think it’s hard to have too many friends. It’s difficult. The research suggests that most people have more than one friend, thankfully but the numbers are usually between one and five. Most people don’t have lots and lots of friends, don’t have what I think you and I have, which are these very wide and very deep circles or you at the hub of particular permutations of friendships.
I do recognize that.
I get it. It’s like we are out there on the 3rd standard deviation because of our personalities and because we’re intentional about creating and developing these. My new friend David, it took both of us to cultivate that relationship, to invite him to meet again. Let’s talk a little bit about some strategies, especially for the person who either doesn’t have friends or just may want more in that sense. Where do you suggest someone start with that?
Possibly your neighbors, I suppose. I would also say that just starting to get out in public more will get you used to interacting more with people. Some of the strategies that we’ve already suggested. When I first moved to Denver, I didn’t know a single person. One of the first things that I did was call up the Molly Brown House Museum and volunteer. It took on a snowball effect.
I think that’s a good one, which is, it’s called, Propinquity, which is the people who are close to us who we naturally run into, the people in the elevator, or the people at the pool at the apartment complex, but then also these like-minded folks. As you said, volunteering or meetups are good places to start to seed.
If you can take your gardening metaphor further, planting a seed, before you even get to the watering process. What is it that makes a remarkable friend is that you are like-minded. That you are of high integrity. People who volunteer tend to be high in integrity. People who volunteer tend to be good. People who live in your building tend to have similar lifestyles.
Yes, and gives you something to relate to and talk about as well.
It makes it easy to meet with them, perhaps.
Be careful with your neighbors. You have to meet the meet the right people. That could get complicated if it doesn’t work out. Slowly and say yes to things. I had a friend a couple of years ago whose goal for the year was to make friends, and she, I guess, manifested people inviting her to things. She just said yes to it all. She didn’t become close friends with everybody, but it got her out meeting other people. She and I just met, through one of these invitations that she got. Now, we hang out all the time.
I recently celebrated my 20th friend’s anniversary with Julie Nervelli, who’s a frequent guest and voice in the Solo movement. One of the things we did was reminisce about our meeting. She was my neighbor. One of the things that she said to me that she reminded me of was I had just arrived in Boulder, and I said that I was more interested in making friends than dating. Here was this neighbor who was very friendly to me. We met in the parking lot. She was on her way to Las Vegas to celebrate her unbachelorette party.
I didn’t know that aspect of it. Look at you, two peas in a pod.
Then, at one point, I just knocked on her door to see if she wanted to just go get a drink and watch a basketball game that I was going to go do alone. Then, she said she was unavailable for this. She mentioned in passing that she was going to be throwing a party. I said to her, “I’m a Behavioral Scientist. I can help use science to make a better party.”
We ended up meeting and planning this party together. That’s been one of the elements of our relationship across 20 years is throwing events together. We used to throw Halloween parties together. We ended up joining, a ski condo, which we called the Ski Dungeon, she and I ran this. We brought two groups of people every other weekend into the ski dungeon.
What made it a dungeon?
It was just because it was very dark. We were on a budget.
This is a great example of watering your relationships is having rituals and traditions. We have Monday happy hour almost every week with my group of friends. It makes it easier to get into the wake. You see everyone. Everybody assumes that we’re doing it. Little rituals are great.
I wrote about, DTLA Josh in the book, Solo, and the person who reads the book will remember Josh because he dates his friends and sleeps with strangers.
I remember that part.
However, the thing that makes Josh such a great friend is how generous he is. He does Dim Sum on Sundays. He does Bro Drink Tuesdays. You don’t have to be a bro to come to Bro Drink on Tuesdays but he has these rituals that are a regular part of his life that people always know about and are always invited to. Then he, of course, now brings people together, and they get to meet each other as well. Of course, he does his Supper club or his Dinner club.
I’m assuming he meets these people in person. As far as making new friends, just a simple tip, when you go out, when you maybe go to a meetup or another group, exchange information with people. Get people’s numbers, friend them on Facebook, and create at least a little connection that you can then expand upon.
I would say that there’s a difference between noes with friends and noes with romance. It goes something like this. If I ask someone out on a date and they say, “No. I’m busy.” I listen to what comes after, “I’m busy.” If I get nothing, I never ask that person out again.
I like the strategy.
If I get, “No. Unfortunately, I’m busy, but I’ll be available next Tuesday.” then I’ll make plans or, “I would love to do this, but I’m unavailable for the next two weeks.” If I get, “No, I’m busy.” that means, no. No means, no.
No sliver of hope.
You got to give me some hope here. That’s there when but if I ask someone, “Do you want me for coffee?” if I get a, “No I’m busy.” and it’s a friend thing, I’ll note that. I may try again. I may try to get the ball rolling again there but at some point, you get enough noes, you don’t get invites anymore. You say, no, to enough of my game nights, you just don’t get asked to game night anymore.
I have a three-invite rule and I abide by it. Let’s say that. Also, if people flake out. If they either can’t do it or they end up canceling.
Relationship Design
I’m with you on that because you took someone else’s spot. I want to highlight relationship design here because when we think about human connections or being social, we can be very categorical about it, which is like, you’re going to date this person. They’re going to be a friend whatever it might be. One of the things about relationship design is you get to create a relationship that the two of you are comfortable with, that the two of you want, and that the two of you agree on, in a sense.
This opens up more permutations. Not everyone has to become a very good friend. You could just have a friend who’s a good shopping buddy, a friend who’s all you do is go to museums together. It doesn’t have to be the case that this person has to become part of the inner circle. To a degree that they’re comfortable and want to just be your museum buddy, you can cultivate that relationship and you can design that relationship. They don’t have to come to game night. They don’t have to be the person you talk to about this, that, and the other thing. They’re in this container.
One of my best friends has someone who he mostly just goes to operas with. When he has a party, he doesn’t invite her. He invites our circle of friends.
Yes. A perfect example of that. Now, that relationship could morph. It could change. It could turn into something else. It’d be nice to have a museum buddy who maybe you sleep with sometimes.
Yes, talk about some interesting things.
The museum is the foreplay. Who knows? Any other tips that you have in terms of planting seeds or watering them when it comes to friends, family of choice, or platonic connections?
I think we’ve covered some good ground here.
I think the key is, to try. Don’t be too proud. Know that there’s going to be some rejection.
Putting yourself out there, I know that it sounds like a cliche. I do think at the beginning, it could be uncomfortable for you and lean into that.
I think the discomfort of doing that is less bad than the discomfort of loneliness.
I agree.
What about the folks who are craving some romance, some intimacy, or are having trouble with that? I think that can be harder to solve in some circumstances. What is your advice, because you deal with this a lot with people who have a breakup and they want to replace that. They have a very acute feeling of, “I need to replace that.” This is a subjective nature of loneliness. You’re going along. Life is good. Work is good. You’ve got good friendships. You have a good social life and then you say, “I’d like to have someone in my life in a romantic way.” You decide, “I’m ready for this.”
Yes. A different type of intimacy.
That’s right and then suddenly, you feel lonely.
Sure. I guess, my first point would be to learn to love being single. Love your single life. Learn how to do it. I have some current and past clients who, when I first met them, definitely talked a lot about either being lonely because of not having a partner or wanting a partner, wanting to heal from this so that they can get back out there. A lot of people talk about the fact that “All of my friends have partners except me.” By the time we stop working together and I keep in touch with my clients quite a bit, they’re still single because they learned to enjoy it so much. That is my first tip.
I’m glad you brought this up because embracing this solo mindset of being willing to think unconventionally about relationships and life in general. This idea of being a good parent to yourself. You don’t need someone to fix your problems even though you may invite people to help you as you need so. The most important one is to feel wholehearted.
You may have a desire for intimacy or romance. Falling in love is fun. It’s an incredible emotional, physiological experience but recognizing that wanting to invite that into your life doesn’t automatically make you less than. Doesn’t make you half of a whole. Enjoying your single life, knowing that it’s a good life for you, is not creating some disparity. It’s just having romance is going to change the course that you’re on.
It is the best foundation, that you can start with. I often say that if you want to start dating again, be happy being single, and then I always ask people, why do you want to date? Sometimes I just want to meet people, but I’ll say having the attitude that it’s going to be fun and maybe having the attitude that maybe eventually, you’ll meet someone who you at least connect with.
Whether it be going on the apps, going to Meetups, that type of thing, you’re going to be bringing a lot better energy out there and it’s going to be a lot more fun. Also, this is important. If you start from this foundation, you’ll be able to see red flags and more easily be able to walk away from a situation that’s not healthy because you’re okay, it’s going to be fun, and you can go meet someone else.
This is why, solo is a dominant strategy whether you’re a single or nonsingle. I 100% agree with this. I want to call back to a Solo thoughts episode that I have been thinking a lot about lately called, Dancing with Bulls. In the episode, I talked about how life is too often a pendulum between boredom and stress.
This is not a new idea. Great thinkers have dedicated their lives to how do you help people deal with the human condition, which is either we live in a world of boredom or we live a world of challenge that seems too great for us, and how easily it is for us to live in either of those two places. I offer a metaphor, while not endorsing bullfighting in the literal sense, but in the metaphorical sense.
I alluded to it earlier when I talked about, how you can’t pursue love without the risk of heartbreak. The best matadors approach the bull with a healthy sense of respect, but they don’t fear it because if they fear the bull, they will never let it get close enough to them to entertain the crowd. They’re never able to then establish both their skill and a style, their prowess and panache.
I think what ends up happening with dating is it is a bull. It might gore you. It can be scary, but it can also be exciting. How do we approach this task where we’re like, “If I’m going to do this, I want to do it well.” I think it’s very easy to be lazy about dating. You’re just swiping, sending the same message, not engaged, and not trying.
Just hoping Just hoping that it will fall into place.
I think that there is something about if this is something that you want, which is it is difficult to do, especially in our current culture, it’s always hard to find a match so to speak. If you’re a solo, it may be even more difficult because you’re probably nontraditional. How do you go about doing this with some enthusiasm, with some joy, with a sense of how do I seduce? How do I make myself appealing? How do I arouse feelings in someone else that creates attraction to me?
It’s not just going to happen where you just say, “I’m here. Come find me.” I think, one of my critiques of people in the world of romance is that they’re often too lazy and too negative. Who wants to go out with a lazy negative person? You want to feel attractive. How do you feel attractive? Someone’s engaged with you.
How do you feel excited? You want someone excited about life and about the possibilities that are there. I would just say that one of the things for the person who’s turning their attention to trying to cure their romantic loneliness, beyond having a good foundation of recognizing how good your life is, if you’re going to give this a shot, you have to just know that it might not work out, but you want to give it the best shot that you can give.
How do you do that? This is wonderful, maybe it’s time for a makeover. Maybe it’s time for a new haircut. Maybe it’s time to spruce up the wardrobe a little bit. Maybe it’s a time to invite someone who you find attractive into a world that you want to step into. Maybe it’s time to take a tango class. Something like that is where you can get to experience the full range of the human condition, the goodness, and the potential, not-so-goodness of life.
You got to practice as well. You need to meet many of us, just one person or just a few people here. I know we have the non-monogamous people out there, but it’s going to take practice and not getting discouraged.
I’m glad you said that because I was lamenting the state of the ideal relationship recently and how it’s no surprise that married people struggle greatly with their relationships because they have this impossible standard in which their romantic partner is supposed to be everything. You’re supposed to have the same lifestyle. You’re supposed to have the same values. You’re supposed to be both personally and professionally in lockstep, making each other better.
Spending your leisure time together. That blows my mind.
I remember I’ve told this story before. My friend, Eric, EL, who’s been on the podcast, was in the Cycling episode. In my mid to late 20s, we had become friends. He always did great with the ladies. They would throw themselves at him and I was a little envious of it. I was not doing well for a variety of reasons. I think one of the reasons was I was looking for the perfect match.
I was in that mindset of the checklist of what I also thought I would like what I thought I needed and so on. I remember one day him saying to me, he called me Pete because I was Pete back then. He said, “Pete, you need practice. You just need to figure out what you like and what you don’t like. To do that, you need to go out with lots of different types of women.”
I tried to embrace that then, but because of my other maladies in the dating world, I wasn’t able to take his advice as, literally as I would have liked. I revisited that idea in my late 30s and early 40s when I started to just pay attention to one simple thing, Janice, and it was this, “Am I attracted to this person?”
Didn’t matter how they looked. It was just, “Is there something about this person that is attractive, that I want to spend time with them romantically or sexually?” Then, I would pursue that because now I have relationship design, you could then make that relationship work rather than it just being an escalator.
I challenge my clients. It’s a second date if you have a good conversation. That’s my role and then as far as dating other types of people, one of the biggest dating trends, right now is called, The Death of The Type and that is going outside what you have historically considered your type. I did an episode type a long time ago.
I’ve heard this. I killed that type a long time ago.
A lot of people stick to it and if you’re, going out there desiring romance, I would strongly suggest if you’re on an app, widening your filters, your parameters, and pushing yourself.
I think that’s great. My apps are all completely deleted right now. I’m living a little monk-adjacent life. I’m 100% the way, everyone, at this particular moment. That was a very conscious choice I made, and it was not because of negative experiences. It was because I wanted to open up a space for other positive experiences that are nonromantic, and nonsexual in my life. When I was on the apps and when I would return to them in all likelihood at some point, one of the standards I use was, how do I feel when I look at this profile?
Get in touch with your intuition.
Is there something here that cuts through the clutter that stands out? A look, a phrasing, or something like that and that’s what I’m using more than rather than that checklist or type approach.
Look at what people write in their bio.
I want to also caution them on the next step. I’m going to speak for men here, all heterosexual men. I’m being hyperbolic here. Especially if you’re experiencing some loneliness, around romance, you’ve decided that you have a goal, that you want to have someone or someone in your life that has that designation, it’s very easy to get excited, and enthusiastic too soon.
There’s a slow-to-hire, quick-to-fire. I think it should be like slow to hire, slow to fire is a healthier approach in a sense, which is, just because someone might check some of those boxes. Just because you had one or two dates, you can get very enthusiastic and you can start to build a future, you can start to put someone on a pedestal.
Start writing a story about it.
That’s right and you don’t know this person. You don’t know someone after two dates. Especially, you don’t know all about them because they’re just like you, are putting forth the best version of you.
They’re filtering.
A little bit. It’s just like, don’t stop dating those other people that you’re dating. Don’t stop looking around. Don’t start clearing your schedules and making these momentous, romantic, attempts and so on. Just enjoy the company of someone who wants to enjoy your company. It’s going to be the case that, “If it’s going to work, it’s going to work.” You don’t have to force it. You don’t have to grip too tight there. Loosen your grip a little bit. Enjoy the process because one of the best ways to make sure it doesn’t work is to come completely over the top.
I agree. It’s a turn-off too.
It is. In part because It just reeks of desperation. I remember I had a friend in graduate school, Bethany. She was so wonderful and she would meet these men. For the right type of man, she was just exquisite. She was smart, funny, interesting, and attractive, and she just radiated optimism and positivity. She was wise. She was my friend.
She was magnetic.
She was and these guys would just try to take up all of her. What she used to say is, “When he gives 100%, I don’t have to give anything.” She wanted to be able to give. Give some space for some give and take that what’s there. The man that she eventually married and created a family with was able to do that. He adored her, but he also let her adore him.
Rise to the occasion too.
It was very nice. It’s just a friendly reminder. I’ve been in that situation where I was just so excited. It ended up working against me in a way.
Huge turn-off. I am a huge fan of going slow. Take time in between dates to think about your date. As I said, when you go slow, you also can more clearly see the red flags.
You probably know who this person was. This is years ago. I came across some podcasts. I think it was when I was working on solo as a concept, and I was looking for singles-related podcasts, and there was nothing like solo at the time. Now, there are lots of others like that, thankfully, including yours. Most of those singles-related podcasts were, How to Not Be Single.
This particular podcast host and I wish I could remember her name, and it might even been a duo. It was for women. She called it a Mantourage dating. You have an entourage. You would have a “Mentourage” is her idea. Which was, don’t go all in too soon. Go out with this guy. Spend some time with this guy. See how it all evolves. Don’t just be, here’s the one. I’m just going to get rid of all the others.
Be my boyfriend.
That was the flip side of the issue.
That’s cute. Also, good for her.
I’m going to offer a quick one. You’ve already alluded to it with texting and with social media. One of the things that I think is very useful now that didn’t exist when I experienced bouts of loneliness as a young man was that when I did that, I was isolated. When I went to college, my home life was very unpleasant and I refused to go home during the breaks.
I was living in the dormitories. I would find a little sublet for a month in New Brunswick, New Jersey where Rutgers is and I would just hunker down there but the entire town cleared out. All my friends went home to their families. I was legitimately isolated. While I was good with my solitude for the most part, the holidays can be romantic times.
I didn’t have much to do because I was a student and I would get lonely. I’d have a chance to reflect on the fact that I wasn’t having luck with the ladies. The problem was, aside from the phone, this was landlines. This was a pre-cell phone. I just had to sit with it. Now, we live in a world where you can send text messages, and where there is social media.
You can Zoom, and you have online communities. There are a lot of groups out there, whether it be Reddit, the solo community, or Facebook groups. I have small text message groups. I’ve started doing these wellness days. I have four to eight people and for every wellness day, I create a WhatsApp group. Now, I can always reach back to this group that we all share this very meaningful experience and can engage with them and so on, while I think social media can be difficult.
Your face indicates that is how you feel.
Yes, it could be very negative if you get into the wrong echo chamber but when used correctly, when used with intention, and when used not to doom scroll but to engage with positive people, technology can help facilitate relationships and connect with people, especially like-minded ones when you’re especially living in a world where there may not be any like-minded neighbors.
I run one for the ex-Mormon community just here in Colorado. It’s positive and it’s helped people, monumentally to connect with other ex-Mormons. You wouldn’t otherwise probably in Colorado.
Just a reminder, again, these are tools. In the same way, dating apps don’t have to be disgusting. If you use it correctly, it can be good. The same for social media. What do you get? Last one.
White Spaces
I have a last one, it’s one of my favorite ones. I alluded to the risks of having white space in your life earlier. For instance, not knowing what’s going to happen at the end of the day. A lot of people feel lonely on the weekends. A lot of people who have just broken up feel lonely, on Sundays. That’s often when people spend time with their partners. One of my last tips for overcoming loneliness is to plan things, especially on the weekends. Have something to look forward to at the end of the week and take action to not have as much white space in your life. Plan things out.
I think having things on the calendar to look forward to that you’re savoring. Especially in those moments where you might be at more risk there.
You might be going and doing some of these things on your own, but you will have predictability for times that you might feel triggered.
I’m going to flip yours. I want to remind people of the great vast benefits of solitude. I started talking about our hunter-gatherers, to go alone was certain death. Think about how much some of our hunter-gatherer ancestors would have loved some time alone. This can be a joyous, wonderful benefit of modernity, a chance to rest, a chance to recover, a chance for spiritual pursuits, and a chance for creativity. Some opportunities lie in that alone time. What I like to say is alone time is not all created equal. Doomscrolling alone is a terrible way to spend your solitude but writing a poem, gratitude journaling, taking a hot bath, or going for a walk in nature can be rejuvenating.
You can still plan for these things, though. I love solitude. One of the reasons I got into studying loneliness is because I overcame it in my own life. I lived in Australia for five years. When waiting for one of my visas, I was in Bali for four months. Completely on my own. Sometimes I would go days without even having a conversation. The first two months were very hard. I would call my friends on the weekend crying. I made such a big deal about how I was away from home. I would post on Facebook. I want to go home, and all this.
People were saying that you’re in paradise.
I got lots of that. After the second month, I was told that the visa could take a week or up to six months. They don’t give you certainty about when it’s going to be approved. When I realized, I was two months in with no end in sight, I decided that I needed to do things differently, and I did. I started gratitude journaling, started meditating, and started planning things. This is when I developed the idea of the Sexy Solo Date Night. Once the weekend did hit on Fridays, I wasn’t feeling lonely, sad, and bothering my friends with sobbing when they picked up. Eventually, it was one of the best things that I’ve ever learned to do.
I want to finish with us both reflecting a little bit or there are some big takeaways. One element to this is that there’s one element of loneliness you can control and there’s one element you can’t control. The element that you can control is what you think and feel and how you feel about yourself and your solitude. That, you have control over.
The other side, the friends, the family, the community, the lover, and the romantic partner, you can’t control. You can influence, but you can’t control. You can’t make them show up when you want them to show up. You can’t make them appear if they’re not there. I like this idea of starting with yourself.
I like the fact that you initiated this conversation by being able to soothe yourself before you get into how you cultivate these relationships, how you improve them, and how you create them if you don’t have them because there are those two elements there. Your example of this was you were in a place, you couldn’t make those relationships happen. You had to make your relationship with yourself work. As you look back on our conversation, is there some overarching idea that comes to mind as a takeaway as we wrap?
I would like people to remember and realize that loneliness is a feeling. Loneliness is not a circumstance. You have the power to take initiative and overcome it and learn how to be your own best company. I’m sure everybody has that ability.
Janice, thank you for talking about this very important topic.
You’re so welcome. Thank you. I want to help the readers and help people out there because I know that a lot of people feel this, and they don’t have to.
Cheers.
Cheers.
Important Links
- Janice Formichella – LinkedIn
- Sex and the Solo Girl Podcast
- Polysecure
- Aging Single #6: Generosity And Legacy
- The Science of Solitude and the Power of Being Alone
- Solo
- Solo Thoughts 10 – Dancing with Bulls
- Cycling – Past Episode
- Janice Formichella – Instagram
- Peter McGraw – Truth Or Truth With A Breakup Coach
- Sex And The Solo Girl
- BreakUp Pod
- Janice Formichella
About Janice Formichella
Janice Formichella is a breakup coach and the host of the podcast Sex and the Solo Girl. She is passionate about helping people from all backgrounds to beat their breakup, overcome loneliness, and make the end of a relationship the start of a powerful new beginning.